Feelings are really in the weeds now, I can’t jump tall buildings with my pony tail? Why did they show that in the kung fu movies??
Thanks loads, Fluff.
Mark you said it all so well! And humor is in question too.
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In my experience what I observed was confirmed and also observed by others here. I found the experience reassuring that my years of gardening observations were right on the money.
I like to do somewhat controlled experiments from time to time. I was testing a soil amendment last year and used tomatoes.1/2 had the amendment, the others did not. I buried the tags into the soil so I could not tell which is which. Not always possible, but I was trying to eliminate as many confounding factors as possible. Turned out I found the amendment useless. I also did an experiment with peppers, but had to know which are which since the amendment required weekly applications.
I was employed as a researcher so am familiar with many research techniques.
I find it quite easy to set up experiments with controls, and double blind when possible. My sample size is poor though, still feel it gives me some useful info.
I also like to rely on others research from time to time. I fertilize my cacti based on various studies of nutritional uptake by cacti and other succulents. This was a huge breakthrough for me as growth nearly doubled once implemented.
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You would be surprised what programs get implemented in middle schools. We have a program, being eliminated after this year which uses controversial topics to tie in ELA (reading/writing) history (research) math and science. In the past couple months we’ve discussed medical and recreational pot as well as genetic testing and abortion.
Many of us skip weeks where the topic seems too much for some or all of our students.
I enjoyed the topic praising Monsanto and GMO’s. My students got far more info on this topic than had been shared with the limited reading selections. I doubt their opinions ended up being what the writers had intended.
Also…
I remember the infamous squirrel killing topic on GW. For me I get away without spraying (nectarines) primarily because I’ve never seen damaged fruit, because the tree rats never leave any for me to find worms or such in my fruit. (Nor pears, most apples, etc). Given this, it was a thread I enjoyed, but I can see that some might be offended. For them, the greatest option should be self-control and simply not clicking on it.
I participate in several different forums on other topics than fruit growing , even have a small outdoor forum and facebook page I run . Each one has a different threshold when it comes to how the members behave toward the topics and each other. With some being quite brutal with the personal attacks. The same thing with those claiming to be experts and those that do not. It can be annoying to have a forum where the self appointed experts run off those that they(the self appointed experts) decide are not worthy to add to the conversation. The same goes for a forum where those that clearly don’t know what they are talking about or post erroneous information and are not called out on it ! The one main reason I became a member here and not some where else was that on other fruit forums there was too much of the latter ( those that do not know what they are talking about posting erroneous info as fact and not being called on it)
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What I love about this group is the focus. My orchardist mentor convinced me many years ago that the priorities of any grower ought to be #1 production. #2 quality, #3 everything else. There is a seriousness about this group that agrees with the way I want to grow. For me its not about the religion of organic/permaculture/conventional. Its about what gets me #1 and #2. If that turns out to be organic, great. But really who cares? Its about #1 and #2.
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It is a shame that too often, internet forum comments cross the line of manners and decency. Fortunately, I find the Growing Fruit forums to be considerably better than average when it comes to manners and reasonable debate.
@alan, I have two kids who are 12 and 14 now. Since they have been both old enough to talk, they have been vigorously debating (bickering?) regularly with each other over many topics. If the skill is not taught in schools anymore, at least in this home, we are not worried! 
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I agree 100%. It’s the results that count. Everything else is noise.
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I had to smile when I saw this- you kept the tomatoes from finding out which ones had the soil amendment, so it was double-blind.
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LOL! I treat them like kids! Well it’s best the administrator doesn’t know. I might give it away to the plants and have to deal with the emotional fallout. I had to tell “Berkeley Tie-dye” I loved him as much as “Cherokee Purple” last year
What a disaster when “Seek-No-Further Love Apple” found out it was lacking the amendment!
Luckily “Monkey Ass” never found out!
BTW the amendments were Rock Phosphate, it did nothing. Later found out it takes about 100 years to work, use triple phosphate if phosphate is needed). And HB101. I saw no difference between test and control groups on both.
This year I’m not growing two of each cultivar, so no testing.
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There are a lot of really good orchardists on this site, but it is completely not worth it to admit that you grow organically here. Somebody will throw in a cheap shot, someone else will attack you personally, and then it’s not even about growing fruit anymore. Some people on this site just love to argue, particularly with organic growers. They make it personal, like a street fight. People can see that and they avoid the topic, because they get on this site to share about growing fruit, not to attack or be attacked. There won’t be any good discussions about growing organically until people could perceive that it is about growing fruit rather than fighting.
John S
PDX OR
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Drew, I’m trying Berkley Tye Dye this year myself, and from seeds (which I haven’t done with tomatoes in quite a number of years). I credit you. In years past I’ve found that when I try to grow tomatoe seedlings I end up with leggy plants that languish behind nursery bought plants for me. Well except for my beloved yellow pear tomatoes, which are not bought simply because they have naturalized in my yard for the past 5-6 years.
JohnS, sorry you feel that way. I hope that you will give our little group another chance. I tend to avoid most chemicals, but they do have their place. I recall having my currants attacked by the dreaded Imported Currant worm. I went to a garden center having an “ask the master gardener clinic” and they were at a loss. One of them even asked why I would import such a pest if I were trying to grow currants. I looked for something broad spectrum and attacked.
Scott
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John, if a member on here makes personal attacks, please use the flag option under their post and mark it as Inappropriate. Such remarks do not represent the attitude of the vast majority of our members, but do reflect on us all. We all gain from informative discussions ad all lose when discussions crash thanks to inappropriate taunting by a few.
It’s nice to hear from you again.
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That’s silly, John. So, I’ll say it - I grow organically. It is VERY rare for me to use a non-organic pesticide or a non-organic method. In fact, the only only non-organic pesticide I can think of that I use in my orchard of over 150 trees is to treat for ACP with my citrus trees, to help prevent the threat of HLB. My decision to remain non-organic was taken away from me when HLB was formally discovered in CA. Many of us are organic, or near organic, and it’s perfectly okay to talk about it. No one has dissed me yet, or thrown a cheap shot at me for doing so. Heck, isn’t that one of the main reasons all of us grow our own stuff? So we know EXACTLY what has been sprayed or applied to our fruits and veggies? Please don’t think anyone is going to attack you, that is simply not true, and as Muddy has mentioned, if someone were do post a personal attack post against you, please flag the post. Us mods will look into it. That’s not the tenor nor atmosphere we’re after here. No worries here, post away about organic growing methods, we’d all like to be able to use the least possible toxic method to grow our fruits and veggies, that is a universal desire on this forum.
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John,
I’m glad that you have posted again. I understand what you say as I have read those posts. I hope you continue to share your experience here. There are a number of us who like to grow organically and want to hear your and other organic growers’ opinions.
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Thanks for all your nice comments. I never stopped lurking, because there are so many knowledgeable and experienced fruit growers here. I’ll try to parse my comments to not encourage arguers.
John S
PDX OR
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Off Topic - that reminded that yesterday when I was reading an article saying that 3 types of bactericides had been given emergency approval status for Florida citrus (because they’ve been shown to reduce the load of HLB in citrus plants) the sidebar held an ad touting the use of Surround on citrus as “The Next Line of Defense” against ACP.
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John, I’m one who has followed your comments and always valued them; clearly, you are a capable and intelligent grower and I value hearing about your experience because I feel I have something to learn from you. So it has troubled me to hear on this and another occasion that your experiences have been negative. I’m very glad to see you taking another run at it.
I can see how the controversy around organic growing has driven individuals to different poles, and I know that sometimes the comments must appear at best insensitive and sometimes derisive… I hate that. It shouldn’t happen.
I want people to make an attempt to hear with other people’s ears, to see with other’s eyes, and to understand with other’s minds,even to speak other’s points, when necessary, out of understanding and respect. I want to see people pull away from the poles. I want to make sure that people like you, and those who disagree with you, keep coming here and keeping our minds open with superb discussions. This subject is big enough that I’m going to need every tool I can understand. Please keep posting.
Best,
Mark
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dupicate removed -how the heck did that happen?
Thanks Mark. I agree.
John S
PDX OR
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