this is located on top of a hill but the hills here are not enough higher in elevation to make them cooler. they are only about three hundred feet in elevation higher than the valleys and are actually warmer as the cool air drains down into the valleys at night. The soil is pretty thin and rocky. You cant dig a hole on this hill top with just a shovel. You need a heavy steel bar to loosen the rocks. I hope a seedling rootstock will be able to grow down and anchor it well enough. My parents house is half a mile from here on a similar spot on a ridge. They had a seedling apple tree come up at the edge of the yard in a compost pile. It only grew 15 feet or so tall in about the same number of years and we and an ice storm that pulled it clear up by the roots and it fell out into the yard. Dad pulled it back up and propped it up with a couple of posts. It lived for awhile but finally he cut it down. I just think it may be a challenge for the root system.
Iād recommend EMLA.111 rootstock.
Matt, heās thinking of seedling stock. Wouldnāt that provide better anchorage on a thin rocky soil, hilltop as he describes? At least, letās say on a stock grown in-situ, which is what I was assuming, but maybe not?
I personally would grow out the stock on my own in a deep pot and transplant as a 1 yr. whip.
No complaints though about M111 or a purchased Antonovka or something similar.
To me, that area just screams āplant a big tree hereā, no matter what is decided upon.
The trees everyone mentioned so far are the scions you graft on your seedlings. Canāt add a lot to what have already been great suggestions. I would get a true seedling thatās care free. You might as well plant 50 of them its nearly the same price as a couple of trees from. A nursery http://www.lawyernursery.com/productinfo.aspx?productSpecies=Malus%20āAntanovkaā.&categoryid=75. I like antanovoka seedlings for rootstock. Iāve been growing them a few years ungrafted with no disease effecting them and no spray. Whatever variety you choose make sure its highly fireblight resistant. In zone 6 its fb you need to worry about.
Actually FB is not much an issue in my part of the northeast with apples in my experience. At a few sites Iāve lost a pear tree or two and Iāve had to cut out a lot of strikes in apples at a few sites over the years. Iāve also seen orchards badly hit in drives upstate fairly recently- but it has always been the scionwood that is infected. It is rare for free standing trees to be killed down to the roots from FB here.
Greater vigor generally encourages FB when inspired by heavy nitrogen apps but I know of no research that suggests vigor inspired by a more energetic root system does the same. Where apple orchards have been wiped out by FB in NYS it has been those planted on dwarfing rootstocks- at least to my knowledge.
MM111 has up to 80% the vigor of the average seedling rootstock (which can provide a wide range of vigor because it isnāt clonal) so I donāt think they are practically all that different beyond the greater predictability of 111.
I agree with AS that a more vigorous rootstock will likely provide better anchorage. The anchorage should not be adversely affected by rocky soil if the roots arenāt stopped by a hardpan or ledge.
Obviously a site on top of a hill is subjected to more wind and apple trees are fairly prone to tipping on any root stock. Wind resistance can be reduced with strategic pruning, including ādormantā pruning in the mid fall but there is nothing wrong with using some conduit staking for better stability if you can manage to drive a stake through the rocky soil.
Since this is a cabin I'm assuming you
might not be there all the time to trim out fireblight and spray apples. That being said buy a little or no spray tree.
In 25 years of managing fruit trees here Iāve never sprayed for FB and never lost a single apple tree to it. Nothing wrong with trying FB resistant varieties though, but not from an exaggerated sense of peril.
Prompt trimming is not always possible with my management either. Some trees I manage I only visit 3 or 4 times during the entire season.
Jeff,
I agree with Alan regarding 111ās predictability as a clone- hence the recommendation. It is known to anchor well in difficult soils, something Iām happy seeing it do here on my rocky clay.
Antanovka would probably do well too.
You are right that seedlings are likely to work. But I would rather go with the higher certainty of 111. Plus, I like the idea of ordering a sizeable 111 from the nursery to get a jump on the project. Seedling takes longer to establish; could get eaten by rabbits; etc.
111 is probably a better choice, thatās why I post things here. I guess I was just thinking about the size and anchoring of a seedling . I am going to order some ohxf 87, I will just add a couple of m111
Trueā¦all of it. I guess I was just thinking of the value of that tap root for drought tolerance and anchoring. Iāve had good success with seedling establishment here. Getting that jump with purchased stock though is a nice thing, as well as the higher certainty you mention concerning DR etc.
The question of DR of seedling stock compared to say M111 is something Iāve often wondered about. Iād like to ask a breeder about that if I ever get the chance. My guess is that seedling stock would have greater variability as you said, but Iām not 100% convinced of that. Survival traits, should, at least in theory, be expressed for maximum survivability, but I suppose it could take multiple generations for those expressions to fully manifest themselves.
You can however have 3/8" caliper in one year from a pip planted early though, but it is still one year lost.
Good points Matt.
I agree with you on all your points Alan. Iām thinking a cabin needs the easy button. I spray with antibiotics since blooms are a point of infection. Iām not sure that does me any good. I agree mm111 are wonderful rootstocks as many have mentioned. 111 work really good even in clay soil, droughts, near monsoons, strong winds that Kansas has so they should work anywhere. I think lawyers must clone their seedlings because they are all consistent reliable trees. Alan obviously when it comes to apples you manage a lot of them. I donāt leave my fb to long but then again I mostly grow pears and only a couple dozen apples. I lost an apple to fb last year 2 weeks from its last checkup it was doing great. The pears around it and rain and perfect fb weather didnāt help. A small home orchard lost over half their trees which was 15+ trees about a mile from me. Iām focused on fb resistant varities because some areas are worse than others.
Clark, I had it in my head that Derby is in CT, but looking over his posts quickly I couldnāt find that. That was why I so strongly stood up about the relative lack of an issue is FB. It really depends on where you are. Certainly in the south and parts of the midwest it is well worth seeking out FB resistant varieties.
I am located on far southwest Missouri, about thirty minutes from Arkansas or Oklahoma depending on which direction you drive. I try to type my posts so I donāt sound quite as backwoods as I am, I guess it worked.
Also fire blight resistance is said to be high.
I grew up in NW Arkansas, about the same time to Gateway or Neosho, irrc, a little longer to Oklahoma via Siloam Springs. Again, it has been a while.
Well, just down the road from me! I went to junior college in neosho. Small world!
John,
Thatās exactly the type of apple I had in mind in terms of being easy. If anyone has extra enterprise scions please send me a stick or two. Iāve never eaten one but it sure has great reviews. I donāt like using any more spray than I need to.Actually I will order one from Starks I think its under patent.
Clark- what apple did you lose to FB last year?
Iām not trying to be Clarkās gadfly, but to my palate there are some much better tasting disease resistant varieties than the tough skinned Enterprise that have come down the pike more recently. Crimson Crisp and Crimson Topaz are almost as pest resistant and are much tastier to me. Enterprise has pretty much dropped out of popularity in the realm of DRās, so I must not be the only one to feel this way.
Alan, Derby is in Connecticut, in the Naugatuck Valley, just north of Bridgeport maybe 15 miles from LI sound