I inherited a hobby orchard with trees about 8 years old on Bud-118 rootstock, which is close to full sized. The trees have all flowered with lots of blossoms for at least the past 3 years. The thing that’s confused me, though, is that we’ve gotten very little fruit. The majority of the trees have never fruited yet.
I was told last year that points to bad pollination, and last year it was very wet during bloom so that could have been, but this year was great weather, pretty much as good as it can get here, and we added a honeybee hive right in the orchard so I don’t see how the blossoms could have failed to get pollinated.
The varieties in there are Honeycrisp, Zestar, Cortland, Idared and Wolf River. The bloom time seemed to mostly overlap so I would think they would have all cross pollinated OK.
Does anyone have any ideas why these trees would bloom just fine for at least 3 years but never fruit? Am I assuming correctly that if they bloom then they are ready to fruit, or could they still be too young? Could there be a nutrition problem or something that could prevent the trees from forming fruit? Or any other ideas? Thanks for any help!
I think that a good place to start is observing the flowers as the petals fall to see if the fruit actually sets. I’m wondering if the loss of fruit is happening soon after they start growing. You might already know the answer to this but at least you can isolate fruit set from after fruit set problems.
I didn’t watch the flower/fruit transition as carefully as I should have, but I’m 95% sure that no fruit developed at all. I’m positive that no fruit made it past marble size, but I’m pretty sure the fruit didn’t even start developing. The problem couldn’t be freezes as we had a really late spring here so everything got started late, and by the time they flowered it was really mild and never got close to freezing. Thanks.
I’m having the same issue here, but with pears. They (Ure, Early Gold, Golden Spice) bloom profusely and barely set any fruit (last year they set none, this year a couple).
I’m assuming I’m not getting pollination. Last year it’s possible I lost the crop to a late frost, but not this year. Pretty frustrating
IMO weather plays a huge role both during pollination and after, followed by a healthy pollinator population, and then the health of the blossom themselves.
What was your weather like during the bloom period? Pears can be susceptible to blossom blast. No experience with any of those varieties so not sure how they well they normally fruit.
Our weather during the apple bloom was pretty similar, lows in the 40s-50s, highs in the 60s to 80s as well. The main unusual thing was that we had a few days where the highs got close to 90 which is very unusual for us (in a cold climate). We had rain only a couple of days during the bloom but otherwise it was dry.
Hi Nick - What a great collection of varieties you inherited! I don’t have a firm answer for you except to say I also have trees bloom and not set. My guess is (1) weather - not just late freezes, which we didn’t have this year, but the entire previous year’s weather with the large and sudden ups and downs we’re getting fall/winter/spring, and not so much snow. (2) age - I think trees take longer to mature in the north. At least mine seem to compared to reports from those in somewhat warmer regions. I’ve often had blooms for a few years before fruit. (3) pollination - possible but doesn’t seem likely. Last year (very wet as you noted) I had two (mature) trees with great set, one none. This year (beautiful weather) those two, though full bloom, have few apples, the other one is full enough for thinning. I think trees have their own rhythms and reasons that don’t always chime in with ours. Wild trees do the same thing. (4) nutrition - our first trees, some 40 yrs ago, were planted in a farmed out old field, light soil, with no amendments and little attention for the first probably 20 yrs. Most lived to fruit, and some we still have (others were poor choices of varieties). I do get much more care and attention now! But they did bloom and fruit with nothing special from me, as do the array of wild trees all around. Not to say it couldn’t be an issue, or help with fine-tuning. Others are certainly more tuned into that than I am.
I’m guess you’ll get fruit in the next few years - hope so! But I know how frustrating it is to have full bloom and no fruit so you certainly are in good company here on the Forum in your waiting. You could always grow plums - they’re even more of a frustration and conundrum of bloom/fruit challenge in the north. That’ll keep your mind off your apples till they fruit. Summer cheers, Sue (in the Upper Peninsula)
Honeybees like it warm and aren’t the most reliable pollinators in cool weather. Did you ever watch attendance of blossoms?
I haven’t much experience with Bud-118, but, partially depending on how they are trained, 111 sometimes takes a long time to come into real productivity- especially if soil induces very vigorous growth. Trees can flower but not sustain energy to hold fruit, especially if spur leaves are shaded by vigorous uprights by mid-spring every season. It’s all about levels of stored energy and energy gathered by spur leaves including their shoots to support holding onto fruit.
On my own trees I make pruning a big part of hand thinning to eliminate shade from leaves that are only useful to growth. I’ve found that by keeping the trees open throughout spring I get more reliable annual bearing so I assume the method can help with trees reluctant to stick fruit to begin with.
If you posted a picture of one of your trees I could evaluate possible affects of how they are being pruned. Pruning apple trees for productivity can be complicated, especially when they are grown on vigorous rootstocks, and this is exasperated by rich, deep soil.
I’ve had issues getting adequate fruit set on the semi-dwarfs. The full size trees set much better. Some of the semi-dwarf trees won’t set any fruit at all in the drier springs. I assumed it had something to do with root system, so I grafted some of the varieties over to large seedling trees. They have been setting much better.
My problem might be compounded by geology. The USGS survey for my area indicates a fragipan at an average depth of 18" below the surface. The root system on the semi-dwarf are probably shallower than typical. Plus I planted them in the yard, so they have root competition in a congested root zone. The roots on the larger apple trees are probably getting better penetration into the fragipan.
I suppose I should try irrigating one of the semi-dwarfs during spring, but it irritates me to have to do this so early in the season. Not to mention, it is a little over 200’ from the nearest water source.
Thanks all for your advise and encouragement. Since I had heard elsewhere that by the time an apple tree flowers it should be able to turn those flowers into fruit I was concerned, but after hearing your experience I’m wondering if the trees are just not quite old enough to fruit yet. I will watch the pollinators very closely next year to make sure they are doing their job. I do not believe the trees had ever been pruned before they were about 6 years old so I’ve been trying to prune them the best I can every year since then, knowing it will be a multi-year process. So they definitely don’t have optimal light distribution, but there are definitely spurs that are getting good light even if not all are.
Focus on thinning cuts, free standing apple trees have the strategy of cutting off all light before it hits the ground, even though this is a waste of energy and leaves that receive less than about 33% exposure are energy sinks. All leaves lose their ability to harvest light permanently after a few weeks of shade, but the tree still holds on to many of these leaves throughout the growing season. The bonus for the tree is probably reducing competition by keeping the area completely shaded under them.
The easiest and often quickest way to bring an apple tree into productivity is to cut off all wood more that half or third the diameter of the leader it is attached to- except when the offending wood is gathering light without interfering with better ratioed wood. Once the tree comes into bearing, really open the tree up to where you could throw a cat through it.
These are general instructions and varieties vary in their response. I go into much greater detail in an article I’ve posted in the guides section of this forum.
In the last 25 years I’ve brought 100’s of neglected apple trees into productivity- probably a few thousand.
Flowers but no fruit may very well be lack of pollination. No bees due to disease, pesticides and the like…equals no apples. (Neither honeybees nor apples are native to America). Commercial apple production isn’t possible without bees.
Every time a bumble bee nest or a carpenter bee or mason bee nest is wiped off the face of the earth by some person raised in the city with no farming or orchard experience…you get fewer fruits.
Thanks Alan. I read your pruning guide and there is a lot in there to think about. I have a lot of trees here to deal with but I feel like I only know about 5% of what I should know about pruning.