So, have you guys in MD have sworn off trying to grow Euro apples, especially the English varieties? I had considered adding a St Edmund’s Russet next year, but if it’s going to be a pain, then I might reconsider.
We’re in a different climate than y’all, but not that much different, but I wonder if that would matter? Our heat + humidity might be a bit less, and the winters might be colder, so would that help? Isn’t it true that these varieties generally do better in New England’s climate?
I am trialing - or will eventually be trialing - the following apples of european origin.
-Sun Tan of England (grafted in 2016)
-Baker’s Delicious of Wales (grafted in 2016)
-Gravenstein of Denmark (fruited 2016)
-Rubinette of Switzerland (grafted in 2015)
-Calville Blanc D’hiver of France
-Ashmead’s Kernel of England
-English Golden Russet
So far, Gravenstein is a winner and I highly recommend it.
I have eaten the latter three from the aforementioned ciderworks and they are excellent.
Apples came from present-day Kazakhstan. Seedlings made their way to Europe and then to America. Every apple seed is different. Every micro-climate is different. You can read the literature - and ask about friends’ experiences - to make an educated guess about which varieties to exclude. But you just never know until you try.
Scott in Baltimore did have trouble with many of the euro types. But he found a few winners too, if I am not mistaken- including Rubinette.
My orchard is roughly 1,600 feet above sea level in the Catoctin Mountains. That might help me a little.
I was only referring to Euro cider apples in the above – pretty much all of them I have given up on. I have many Euro apples that do very well, including many English ones. A rough guess is about half of the non-cider ones I tried worked out. Ashmeads, Blenheim, Bramley, King of the Pippins, Laxton’s Fortune, and Worcester Pearmain are all English apples that I found easy to grow (and, all are great apples).
Scott - what were the major issues you had with the euro cider apples? (Sorry if you have detailed this elsewhere here - a link is fine if you have one.)
I had a little issue with powdery mildew on Harry Master’s Jersey last year, but they have been OK well behaved in the foliage and growth department for me.
…Well, except for my Dabinett. It has put on maybe 8" of growth total in two years. But I attribute that to planting it in the lowest part of my yard, and it having one root on the rootstock (G.222) when I got it.
Drew, the biggest problem was fireblight. Many are late bloomers. Also they were very prone to rots and watercore. I don’t like to do a lot of summer spraying and they require a lot of that. Lastly they are meant for a cooler climate as far as taste goes, most of them had little tannin. There were a few exceptions and I kept those for a few years but eventually got sick of the rot.
Thanks Scott. That makes sense on the fireblight. I thought my Harry Masters Jersey would never wake up this spring. And FB is in my neighborhood… a euro pear on the street about 5 blocks away had blossom and fruit blight this year.
Not sure if I will be as susceptible to rots or not, but probably. We get the extremes of summer heat + humidity and the zone 5 winter cold. 
whats the best ones for northern california? someone suggested granny smith
Depends on what you like, of course, and how far north and east you live - heat and chill hours vary quite a bit. Gravs do especially well up here, which led to the famous orchards around Sebastopol. I’ve had good actually-ripe Grannies here, and Stayman and Albemarle/Yellow Newtown Pippin do quite well also.
I’m in coastal Marin County, and have found this to be a very easy climate in which to grow apples. We get enough warmth, enough chill, and enough rain for most apples to thrive - and the growing season is very long.
A few of the varieties i am eager to taste this year (most of them where grafted last spring)
Rubinette Rosso Rafzubex (a bigger sport of Rubinette)
Ariane (a french variety resistant to scab)
Pinova
Patte du Loup (Wolf’s Paw - an ancient french variety supposed to have an anise flavor)
Pipo de Basto (an ancient portuguese variety that has a barrel shape - Pipo = Barrel)
And many others that are still growing…
Beautiful apples, great production on 2nd leaf trees. What rootstock and training method are you using. I would love to see more pictures close up of the technical aspects. The Wolf’s Paw looks and sounds like an apple I’d love! Thanks for posting!
Chikn,
I’m grafting on 5th leaf trees changing varieties, so it’s not unusual that they have this production on the second year after grafting. When i planted most of my apple trees i made the mistake of conforming to the varieties that where available over here and planted several of the same variety.
I have lots of Gala and Golden and they are very vulnerable to scab and i want to avoid spraying as much as i can, so i’m changing them to resistant varieties, like Topaz, Ariane and others.
These original trees had no rootstock identification when i bought them, but they are probably using MM111 or MM106 which is not bad considering i have a dense clay soil and if i use a not so vigorous root stock they would take forever to grow. My recent planted trees are using M7, M26 and i even have some in M9 to test but these are growing very slowly in these conditions.
When i started trading scions and collecting more interesting varieties i decided to graft them directly on the old variety i was replacing instead of removing the tree.
This way the new varieties had a great head start. Grafted in March they grew like weeds and in the first year i began training them and bending the branches. Sometimes they even give me a few apples the same year i grafted them (it’s rare but it happens). In the second year they tend to produce well and i usually thin them but i didn’t this year so some have a great load (greater than i usually allow)
I also use a few very old trees i have, to test some varieties and as a reserve scion stock. Here’s a very old tree that has more than a dozen varieties grafted. The “Patte du Loup” apples of the photo i posted are grafted on one of its branches.
I have done the same with more recent planted trees (second leaf duplicated tree, grafted with new interesting varieties) and with these younger trees they will only reach the same production in a couple of years.
I do tend to leave a few apples tough, to see if i got the right variety - sometimes we have a few surprises with tradings.
And this way i don’t have to wait 3 or 4 years to see if someone made a mistake.
Guiding the branches horizontally helps in early production if you don’t mind slowing the overall development of the tree. And i don’t. I prefer them small and productive than full of leaves and branches and no apples.
Beware of very heavy production with very young trees guided this way. They can exhaust themselves, spend all the reserves and die.
Those trees look amazing! I wouldn’t have thought to let them put on so much fruit when they are so small, but they do have access to bigger root systems from your grafting over, compared to a new tree of the same size…
That’s precisely what happens. Their root system is of an older tree, so they can sustain the fruits without any problem.
Of course, if the fruits weren’t there they would channel all the energy to growing, but then i would not have those delicious apples. It’s a matter of choice. As i said i usually thin them a lot more but didn’t this year, so this is the result.
Patte du Loup Is a variety I have been tracking down for a couple of years. Interested in swapping or selling scions? I currently grow ove r a 1,000 varieties of apples.
If the 2 grafts i have continue to grow well i probably can try to send you some cuttings next winter (remind me with a PM in a few months). I also was extremely happy to secure this ancient and excellent variety according to everything i have read.
Here’s a google translated french wikipedia article:
It’s a public variety but, nevertheless, i wonder if you can receive it without custom problems considering the tough import laws on live plant material over there.
There are probably lots of interesting varieties in your collection but when i read of all the problems you have over there with fireblight (that i don’t have over here until now - knock on wood…) i cringe at the mere possibility of introducing it in my orchard.
That makes all the sense now, although I was hoping you had a magical formula…
Your work and production are obviously excellent, I too would like wolf’s paw but don’t want to run afoul of our custom officials. I can wait till Derek is selling the scion from his jail cell.
Customs officials…It’s a joke!! Neither Derek or I would ever contemplate any illegality.
I mistakenly thought you were here in the USA, you are right no swapping! That article is the same one where I first read about the variety and where it says it is similar to Fenouillet Gray.
I have newtown pippin, ashmeads, goldrush, rubinnete, kids, granny, and honeycrisp. I am adding golden russet, and hudson’s golden gem. Am thinking of roxbury russet and grimes golden, or will they be much different than anything I have
Roxbury Russet is not all that different from Golden Russet.
Hudson’s Golden Gem is very difficult to grow well outside of the west coast; there were several discussions about it here. I gave up on it a few years ago. Its a great apple if you can get fruit.
