Cleft Graft

applenut 2016-02-14 21:51:09 UTC #26

The cleft usually stops at a knot; in fact, it takes a wedge or something to hold it open to stick the scion in. The split running isn't a problem, especially if you have a long taper on your scion (I use about 1-1/2" depending on the scion thickness).

applenut 2016-02-14 21:53:43 UTC #27

Here's the cutter. I hone the utility knife blade to be sharper than the factory hone. It tends to split out the bottom of the cut when doing the scion "V" shape, but it doesn't matter since it's the top you're trying to align. Note the mark on the blade to say how deep to split the rootstock.

bleedingdirt 2016-02-15 01:03:23 UTC #28

How about a video now?

Bart 2016-02-15 01:19:44 UTC #29

Mark - do you use your clippers to make the cuts on the scion, or do you do it with a knife?

Bart 2016-02-15 01:31:32 UTC #30

Also, Mark, which one do you like better or have more success with, the simple splice (via nippers) or the cleft?

marknmt 2016-02-15 01:33:35 UTC #31

Bart, I started doing splice grafts Alan's way: cut both the stock and the scion with the clippers, stick 'em together, and wrap. (The precut tape is already hanging on the stock, waiting and ready.)

On clefts I use a knife, laboriously and gracelessly whittling away at my poor scion in an attempt to convince it that I am its master. Sometimes it works. Well, mostly, in fact, but I do have trouble getting everything just as I think it should be. With pear and apple and the occasional plum I get away with it. Apricot not so- but I'll blame the temperature as much as my technique for that. Here it can be difficult to get enough days that are warm enough for the apricots to callous reliably. I've only ever succeeded with apricot using a chip graft.

clarkinks 2016-02-15 01:48:18 UTC #32

Apricots are a son of a gun to graft. I've blamed the temperature, the scions, the rootstock , heck I even blamed myself all to no avail. There are people that graft them like Bob Purvis but the truth is even if I ever get good at grafting them I might get fruit once every 6 years.

Bart 2016-02-15 01:48:46 UTC #33

Good to know, thanks!

I've been practicing and with a knife, I'm pretty horrible, but I think I can do a decent "wedge" on a scion to insert into a cleft graft, and I've had some good success matching up the wood for a splice graft using nippers.

There's no way I can do a saddle graft or a whip and tongue at this point with my knife skills so I'll rely on the other two.

Thanks!

clarkinks 2016-02-15 01:56:24 UTC #34

In all seriousness Bart weather is a lot of the problem 70 degrees one day and 20 the next day in Kansas is not unusual. The last time I grafted apricots they were the only thing that didn't take besides peaches. I grafted in the 60s-70s and it dropped in the teens and stayed awhile. Pears , plums, apples were all fine but peaches, cherries, apricots not so much. Some of the cherries took and none of the peaches and apricots.

marknmt 2016-02-15 02:07:58 UTC #35

They're both pretty reliable and straightforward. I'll do a splice with nippers anytime the wood is close in size and not very big. Clefts are great with mismatched wood- you can take a pencil of a scion and stick it into a 4" trunk; I haven't done it with wood that big, but it's done regularly and readily. I do use the cleft if the stock is say, 3/4" or larger, and in that case I'm likely to put two scions into the same cut (one on each side) so that I can pick and choose the better later.

hambone 2016-02-15 02:10:31 UTC #36

Bart- Whip and tongue I find is fun to do. Tips I might give- be in no hurry and cut the tongue very, very slowly, start with the blade almost flat against the wood; use a rocking motion to gently move the blade down, keep absolute control of the blade.. Put thick leather glove on your non-knife hand, learned that the hard way. And use a very sharp knife. Start the tongue cut one-third (not one-half) the way down the already cut surface. My two cents.

More: I find my first diagonal cut on the scion or stock comes out straighter and flatter the more power and speed I make the cut with. I use John Daly's (golfer) famous tip: "Grip it and Rip it." is my motto for this first diagonal cut. But my tongue cut is the opposite: precise, slow, controlled. Hope this helps.

marknmt 2016-02-15 02:15:16 UTC #37

What Hambone said- plus, the wood has to be supple for this to work. Dry, brittle wood will not play nice.

Also, don't jam the two pieces together too far- once they fit, they fit, and pushing them further will only make a nasty bulge.

TurkeyCreekTrees 2016-02-18 01:02:16 UTC #38

Shout out to Applenut. I bought one of the Craftsman Utility cutters to see if it lived up to his hype. I got it today and monkeyed with it a bit on some scion wood that I had already in the scion fridge. I think I am going to like it!!! Even for just splitting root stock on cleft grafts it will be a huge time saver. With a little more experimenting I think I can even do W/T on 1/4" wood.

jbclem 2016-02-18 11:51:56 UTC #39

Applenut, I've been using a utility cutter similar to yours for years for whip grafts. But I've never tried to sharpen the blades. Could you detail how you do that. Since it's an anvil cutter, it would help to have the blade sharper than it is when new.

TurkeyCreekTrees 2016-02-18 13:40:41 UTC #40

Sharpening them maybe of benefit, but I found the new blades to be plenty sharp yesterday. You can buy replacement utility blades fairly cheap.

applenut 2016-02-18 15:56:52 UTC #41

I'm a woodworker and have a pretty sophisticated sharpener http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Tormek-C101.aspx?gclid=CJr_2I7WgcsCFYY_aQodUPwLkw It uses a felt wheel at slow speed that you put a buffing compound on. The blade ends up with a mirror finish, and the performance is quite above the factory sharpness. I use the same thing on the blade on my utility knife.

This way you can slice your finger with a nice, clean cut that glues together well in the emergency room.

cckw 2016-02-18 17:13:37 UTC #42

Applenut. I like your vise-thingy for holding the rootstock. I hadn't thought of that.

Normally on web forums people learn something from another then repost later as their own original thinking. But I want to say you were the first person I ever heard of that was doing single bud, which I now recommend to people. You posted it a few years ago on another forum. I gave it some thought and adopted it. that small scion had less leverage on the union and etc. If you look at a tree in the spring there are no dud buds, or at least none that look fine at grafting time. I actually do 2 buds though. I have a boxer that was helping and broke off some growing buds and with just one I had to plant the rootstocks in a nursery area to do the next year. By boxer I mean a doggie, not Mike Tyson. Although both are equally good on delicate stuff.

applenut 2016-02-18 21:08:15 UTC #43

OK, here's the promised photo of grafting a larger scion to a smaller rootstock, in this case a 1/2" scion to a 3/8" rootstock. It actually goes quite quickly. I'm able to use a lot of scionwood I'd previously have to toss.

greyphase 2016-02-20 14:50:37 UTC #44

OK I'm guilty I looked at the Craftsman Utility cutter and ordered one. It came yesterday and I've been "playing" with it and I think with a little more practice it will work much better for me than my Opinel knife. I did too much "whittling" with my Opinel trying to get a straight edge on the scion. This Utility cutter makes a nice straight cut on the scion. Everyone has their own way of cutting scion and I think I've found mine.

Johnthecook 2016-02-20 15:04:24 UTC #45

I purchased one also. My local store had one, but the blade was longer and more money to replace so I ordered a craftsman. Thanks for the tip Applenut!