Anyone familiar with the Fameuse apple? One of the Fameuse apples i’m growing this year did something odd and it set a second crop late in the year after the first crop blossoms were froze off this spring. The apples wont likely make it because they are only as big as golf balls but never the less I’m trying to understand better why it set a second crop when no other apples did. The name its known by commonly may explain it since its known as a snow apple. Here is some information about it https://www.orangepippin.com/apples/fameus and https://www.grandpasorchard.com/Tree/Malus-Fameuse and Fruit | Albemarle Ciderworks & Vintage Virginia Apples and some additional information http://www.treesofantiquity.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=120. The description I have says " FAMEUSE is called Snow, or Snow Apple, and is also known as Snow Chimney, Chimney Apple, Red American, Royal Snow, Pomme De Neige and Chimney Point. Chimney Point is a village within the town of Addison, Vermont, built by the French, who likely planted the Fameuse there from seedlings or seed brought from Canada. The variety was noted in Canada in 1739, where it is also speculated to have originated in a seedling orchard from seeds brought from France. However, some European pomologists claim it originated in Canada. Snow is the probable the parent of the McIntosh. It is reported in Historic American Trees that during the American Revolution, a contingency of Hessian soldiers planted an orchard about three miles north of Winchester, Virginia, of Fameuse apple trees. Sixteen of the trees survived into the 20th century and were still bearing fruit in the 1930s. Snow is one of the few apple varieties that tend to reproduce its likeness from seed. The coloration can vary, but usually it is a solid-red or pale-yellow, flushed red, and the flesh is pure white, sometimes streaked red. It is tender, juicy and subacid. Where conditions are favorable, scab will develop. For maximum production, a pollinator is necessary. To increase the fruit color, leaves were often removed from around the best apples on the tree. The medium-size tree bears heavily, nearly annually, with vigorous growth, and produces short spurs. The bark is a dark-red, and the coarse, shiny leaves are waved with sharp serrations. It is a quality dessert, cooking and cider-making apple that ripens in late September." -Fruit | Albemarle Ciderworks & Vintage Virginia Apples. Can anyone help me out with any additional information?
I’ve grown it for years and consider its quality to be rather mediocre and not distinctive in any way- A Macintosh without the crunch and high aromatics of its child.
Alan,
I see descriptions that say similar things and then I see descriptions such as this “Just ate one sent specially from an organic farm in Kansas. Beautiful little apple–tiny, bright red, and very round. Fairy apple! Quite aromatic. Sweet, with a bit of almond, and I do see how some of its qualities may have come down to McIntosh.” I’m not sure if its different strains, different people tasting the apples or different locations that account for differences in taste. Out of the 17 reviews https://www.orangepippin.com/apples/fameuse it appears most rated it favorably at least. I suspect your more of an apple connoisseur and would be inclined to rate your description higher than the people who rated it as the best apple. Even then the apple has only a rating of 4.3 on a 5 scale on the website similar to fuji or gala ratings. Overall people rate honeycrisp or goldrush as around 4.7 or 4.8 on a 5 scale so it’s definitely second rate comparatively but what isn’t right? I’ve had fuji and gala that were exceptional apples but it happens rarely for me. I’m going to post a picture or two later and maybe you can tell me more. Does yours ever set a second crop when the blooms are damaged? This is another description" Fameuse is a fairly small bright red/crimson apple with bright white flesh and a distinctive sweet flavor. It originates from the area of Quebec in Canada, and is able to tolerate extreme winter cold. It was grown commercially in Quebec on a large scale. It has good disease resistance with the exception of being highly susceptible to scab.
Fameuse is historically a very interesting apple, since it is probably the ancestor of McIntosh, which in turn has led to many other varieties - all characterised by the crimson skin colors and sweet white flesh and unique vinous / sweet flavor.
We are grateful to Canadian apple enthusiast Eric Rivard for finding the following details about Fameuse.
Summary of some information translated from “Le journal d’agriculture illustre” 1889, in QUEBEC Province. From mid 1700 to 1850 Fameuse was the main grown tree and the fruits were exported to England in large quantities. For some reason, was a massive destruction of the Fameuse apple trees in Quebec Orchards in +/- 1860’s with the introductions of new varieties such as the Wealthy, the Baldwin, and other species from Russia. A new disease in +/-1885 “Apple scab” or “Fusicladium dentrilicum” caused the end of the last commercial Fameuse orchards.
Tree:
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Dense branches
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Medium vigour
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Not very sensitive to diseases
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Late blossoming
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Harvest early October,
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Consumption: From the Crop till the end of December (1800 century literature seems to mention February)
Main features
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Intense perfume
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Rusticity does not fear frost.
Problems:
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Tendency in alternation (biennial bearing)
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Uneven size and colour in the same tree
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Can find all red and red/green streaked apples and this on the same tree.
Evaluation:
Good table apple
A further extract translated from Le Journal d’Agriculture Illustre", May 1889. (JULES N. PAQUET. 1889)
What about the quality of the Fameuse Apple? I like the Early Astracan, I taste the Duchess beautiful, I enjoy the Soft Peach, I admire the huge Alexander. But I remain without expressions when I eat a Fameuse apple in our happy winter evenings. Is there a most succulent, most tasty; with a richer taste and more flavourful? In one word, is the Fameuse, no species will equal it in quality, argue its glorious title; Admittedly it has certainly not stolen it’s picturesque name.
Last updated 23 Nov 2012. " - https://www.orangepippin.com/apples/fameuse.
The apple is also known as a parent for many famous apples. Yes i’m planning on crossing it with my seedlings. “Begin with McIntosh and then think of all the Mac progeny, the children of children and so on. Start with Cortland, Empire, Fireside, Liberty, Macoun, Priscilla, Pristine, Spartan and Tydeman’s Early Worcester just to name some examples of descendants that are growing in our orchard.” - http://www.saltspringapplecompany.com/Fameuse.htm
This article was interesting also "RURALYS, 2007, WWW.RURALYS.ORG
Fameuse, with its fiery-red solid or striped tender skin and brilliant, arctic-white flesh, is so juicy and aromatic that, even today, enthusiasts praise its flavor as being superior to other cultivars—then launch into reasons why the apple is, and should be, relegated to antique apple status.
Fameuse can self pollinate (though is more productive when cross pollinated) and may even have bright, crimson streaks in its flesh near the peel.
Thought to be introduced to Quebec, Canada, from French seeds in the early 1600s (though some sources state it originated in Canada as late as the 1700s), Fameuse quickly became one of the most popular cultivars in the region, was widely planted there, and remained the favorite variety for two centuries. During that time, it was exported in barrels to England in large quantities despite its relatively poor shelf life, and it managed to win honors at British horticultural expositions for its exceptional quality. The cold winters and short summers of Quebec and New England seemed ideal for the hardy apple.
Poet Robert Frost, whose Vermont apple orchard was the subject of numerous of his poems, raised Northern Spy, McIntosh, Delicious, Golden Delicious, and Red Astrachan in his orchard. But it was a special variety, the Fameuse, that he planted close to his stone home. Today, the Frost Heritage Tree is being propagated as part of a project to create a display orchard at the Robert Frost Stone House Museum site in Shaftsbury, Vermont.
It is reported that in the late 1800s, either an unknown disease or a killing frost wiped out most of the Fameuse trees in the entire growing region. The variety never recovered its popularity after that. Surviving whatever had claimed so many Fameuse trees, McIntosh, likely an offspring of Fameuse which also was hardy, had good flavor, and stored well, supplanted Fameuse’s popularity by the 1900s, and what Fameuse trees remained, all but died out by midcentury.
The subacid, strawberry-perfumed variety is also known as Snow Apple, Snow Apple of Quebec, and Chimney Point, among many other common names.
Firsthand experience
“The flavor of Fameuse, once tasted, is never forgotten,” said Fred Sherrington, a New York grower who was raised on a ranch in southern Quebec that grew the Fameuse as late as the 1950s. Now in his sixties, he remembers the apple well. “There is no other apple that has the distinctive ‘come on’ flavor,” he said. “It is very sweet. And, since the fruit is not very hard, one wonders if the whole purpose of this apple was to contain and deliver the juice of it, which, while eating, reminds one of mulled cider.”
Sherrington believes that less flavorful varieties have taken Fameuse’s place, because they were larger, firmer, had a distinctive shape, and stored well. That was more in keeping with what consumers wanted at the time. Taste, he laments, was not the deciding factor. For growers, however, there were additional “deciding factors” for the variety’s disappearance.
“My memory of the Fameuse variety was that neither my father nor my uncle could get rid of them fast enough!” Sherrington explained. “The returns were below cost, and their meager contribution hastened the day when my father returned to work in the city of Montreal (and so began the long slide into oblivion for that orchard).
“The apple trees, themselves, grew a lot of branches, and my father taught me to prune on Fameuse trees, because I ‘couldn’t do them any harm,’” he continued. “The apples were not very big, and unless you ate one fresh from the tree, the fruit had very little crunch. The flavor, however, was exceptional. I remember we had two types—solid red with green, and very striped red over green. The striped ones tasted sweeter, like biting into a can of fresh apple juice, with no added anything.
“Fameuse had to be sprayed constantly for scab,” Sherrington said, “and I recall they were every bit as susceptible to that disease as the McIntosh were.”
In addition to its affinity for apple scab, other diseases and disorders include Fameuse’s susceptibility to fireblight and collar rot. A sport of Fameuse, Winter Fameuse, claims the merits of its parent but with better keeping quality. It is just as susceptible to scab, however.
Still a part of the apple mix for several boutique East Coast cider makers, today the variety nevertheless is difficult to find. Tim Ward who grows 1,500 apple cultivars on Eastman’s Antique Apple ranch near Wheeler, Michigan, said of all of his varieties, the Snow Apple is the second-most requested (Honeycrisp is the most requested), but the buyers are generally 80 years of age or older. Ward says that he lets customers know when he’s going to harvest the Snow Apple, and they travel for hours to buy that cultivar on the day it’s picked." http://www.goodfruit.com/snow-apple-of-quebec/
I can’t speak for variations under the same name. The trees I’ve tasted fruit from came from Cummins or Adams. However, it is a well known apple and there is huge interest these days in antiques. If it was generally a standout, even only in certain regions, I think there’d be many on this forum who grow it. It is no more susceptible to scab than Macintosh. Requires two myclo sprays here to control on an average season (this last season was not average and I had some bad scab for the first time at sites where I spray 3 times for scab. The issue varied from site to site and it was ones with either eastern shade or seldom mowed sod where I had problems).
Incidentally, most people don’t like a soft apple these days, no matter what the flavor. I don’t.
Alan,
My interest in these apples is for cider so texture won’t be a big deal. I don’t care for mushy apples myself most of the time. To bad these apples wont make it! Here are some pictures from this morning.
There is also high interests now in antiques for (hard) cider- I never read Fameuse mentioned for this purpose. Usually it is the higher brix types.
Alan,
I have a tree I grafted a few limbs over to Kingston black to add some pizzazz to cider. We will see how things go I don’t always have the best luck with apples. Apples can be difficult to raise well on my land. I do usually get some apples anyway but the efforts are high for minimal returns. It’s difficult to say how Fameuse will be as a cider apple. I have some years that are incredible apple years!
The Fameuse apple did not fruit this year. It was a dry year here but I hoped to be able to get an apple or two and give a report. During this drought my report is instead going to be its amazing to be alive after having lost 30 trees the same age which are dead to the ground.
Hello,
Here is my assessment of snow. It is one of my favorite apples and has been since I was a kid.
I started growing snow in my orchard about 12 years ago. I purchased the tree from Vintage Virginia Apples on M111 rootstock. I am in southeastern Michigan zone 6a. I personally love the texture. I find it soft but never mealy. I also find the flavor somewhat aromatic with nice sweet/tart balance. Compared to other varieties in my orchard, snow seems less susceptible to scab or most other fungus, however I think snow is more susceptible to insect damage. I also love the bright white color of the flesh.
I have also found that snow hangs on the tree well for a soft fleshed apple. I probably picked mine over a time period of about a month. After that, they start to get mealy.
Snow seems to do well here in Michigan. I think it is more common around here than in other areas. Many of the commercial orchards grow snow. It certainly does well at my house.
I don’t consider snow to be an exceptional apple at all- as always, it depends on your tastes. It is mild, small and not very firm- not very distinctive one way or another.
Taste tests used to be common among fruit growing groups. I don’t see much of that anymore although I suspect there are groups like the Home Orchard Society that still do it.
Snow or Fameuse is a well known apple, but not one I used to see submitted to such taste tests and I generally haven’t heard apple nuts rave about it. But there is an apple for every taste and Snow wouldn’t still be popular if it didn’t appeal to some.
Of course, the apples of our youth always hold a particular sway. My favorite apple then was Newtown Pippin as grown in Santa Cruz. I just ate one off my tree yesterday that was one of the bests apples I’ve tasted this year. But, although I now live only about 50 miles from where the first tree was discovered about 300 years ago, it is not an easy apple to grow here in S. NY- at least on my site.
Obviously, Dave Wilson uses their taste tests as a promotional tool.
What I like about Snow is its unique flavor and texture, it has a different kind of aromatics and chew. To me it is in the McIntosh school, along with Akane, Worcester Pearmain. It also has some of the aromatics of the Hubbardston Nonesuch. My guess is these apples have some common genes, and while its not my favorite kind of apple when I have many different varieties I really enjoy having a few of this type.
I thought Fameuse was a parent of Mac.
I will, of course, defer to your more careful taste and texture profile analysis. My approach isn’t professorial and my memory less than outstanding. All I’m sure of is I’ve eaten this apple a few times and it didn’t stand out much. I liked the red veins in its flesh, though.
All my experience comes from a single tree.
Thats the speculation anyway because they taste similar. There are in fact many old French apples of this type which few people are aware of and any of them could be the parent I would say. Pomme Raisin, Belle Fleur Rouge, Rambour d’Automne, etc all have similar skin, flesh color, and aromatics as Snow and McIntosh. Even the English Worcester Pearmain is probably descended from an old French apple.
In my opinion the most tasty of these is Akane (child of Worcester Pearmain), its a special apple. Too bad it rots so badly for me.
Are you by any chance a vinophile?
I like Snow/Fameuse very much, based on fruit from two trees in old farm orchards on Amherst Island near Kingston, Ontario around 1980. Especially after one warm sunny summer, they were absolutely delicious eaten off the tree. It may be especially suited to the St. Lawrence Valley and nearby areas., but I have heard favourable opinions of it even in the Niagara Peninsula, although no commercial producers that I know of grow it. It seems to have been widely popular in home orchards in many parts of Ontario in the old days.
I’ve grafted Fameuse / Snow twice. 2017 I grafted 6 scions to a wild rootstock and had all of them fail. Second year, spring 2018, I grafted 3 scions on G.222 rootstock (3 trees) and had every scion fail (the 3 rootstocks survived). It seems to be something that should graft easily, but my experience has been poor on this one (Zone 4, southern Adirondacks, NY). I ordered 3 trees on M111 for spring 2019 and hope this one is finally in the bank. As a NY’er we appreciate McIntosh type apples.
I know they graft easily to mm111 and that is what my rootstock are.
I haven’t had any luck with Fameuse, but the last time I tried it was probably my grafting skills. I’m going to have to try again. I’ve also had poor results with Macoun.
I should point out that those grafts were attempted on my Liberty apple, and I have no idea what the rootstock is. It’s a “semi dwarf”.
That’s what I ended up ordering them on, from 39th Parallel. Mikes trees are nice, I can’t resist his sale prices.