Thanks, all of you, for the incredible helpful replies to my questions. I’ve read them all and did further research based on information provided. Without a doubt, (with the exception of reckless neighbor’s spraying!) my biggest challenge and mystery in my orchard has always been dealing with whatever the heck it is that keeps attacking my fruit. Based on everyone’s comments above, I am almost 100% certain that I have both OFM and PC- at least- and very likely all of the top 4. Last night I went out with a flashlight and absolutely, positively identified some adult PC, and I’ve seen OFM before. But seriously, folks, I just can’t understand why everyone else is able to deal with these guys but even when I sprayed every 10 days I got a LOT of damage. That being said, I didn’t always re-spray if it rained-even a hard rain- and I guess they could have attacked right after a good rain. I have given lots of thoughts to @alan 's question of whether I’m getting adequate coverage when I spray. So far I just use a little hand-pump sprayer (I had planned to buy an electric pump-type this year but after loosing so many blooms I didn’t see much use). But I feel like even with those I get a lot of good coverage. I walk all around each tree and spray until dripping and even try to get up under the leaves and spray up so as to get both tops and bottoms. My next BIG BIG interest is in the comments from @Olpea & alan and others about whether buying triazicide (Spectracide once and done) at lowes is really a good option for an orchard the size of my own. I have ALWAYS felt strongly that there must be 1) better products and 2) cheaper (per application) products. I even went to our local farmers co-op and asked them if they had anything. But everything in my area is geared toward what they call “row crops” (corn, wheat, soybeans, etc) and no one knows or stocks anything. The good news is that if I knew of a product I could get it because I have lots of farmer friends with their chemical/agriculture license that lets them buy things Lowes can’t sell. I have had them get really strong roach sprays for me before to use in my rental property. So, if you all could give me the specific names of some of the “commercial” products you referred to, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks all.
Cityman,
You have not mentioned if you use sticker in your spray tank to help the insecticide/chemical sticks trees/leaves/fruit better. Alan would recommend Tactic. I use Nufilm 17. To buy either, you probably need to order on line.
But if you are in a hurry, you can buy Bonide Turbo spreader/sticker from Lowe’s or Home Depot to use for now.
It will help.
Cityman,
Kansas is also a big row crop state, but many crop protectants have labels for both fruit trees and row crops. Some are labeled for just row crops. These are considered 'specialty products" and are really not available at the local farmers coop.
I purchase what I can from a local chem supplier because they are cheaper, but they can’t get some of the more specialized fruit crop protectants. For speciality crop protectants, I generally use Midwest Grower Supply, or to a lesser degree Crop Production Services. Both outfits will send crop protectants via UPS, although Midwest Grower Supply is close enough to me, they deliver my order.
At one point I took a specialty catalog into my local chem supplier and asked him to look through it to see what they sell, or could easily get. I have the list in front of me. My guess is your coop probably sells the same thing, if they cater to row crop farmers.
They can get pretty much all the pyrethoids (Asana, Baythroid, Binfenture, Fanfare, Mustang Max, Perm-Up, Silencer, Warrior II). The problem for you is that all commercial pryrethroids labeled for fruit require an applicator’s license. Some of these same pyrethroids are labeled for termites and ants, and for some reason don’t require an applicator’s license.
Other insecticides used on row crops: Belay, Belt SC (good against OFM) Carbaryl 4L, Diazinon (RU) Dipel DF, Imidan 70WSB, Lorsban 75WDG, Malathion 5E, Sevin XLR.
I have a list of fungicides too. If you are interested, I can post those.
Really, probably your best bet is just to call Midwest Grower Supply. For starters, you could order a bottle of Delegate and a bottle of Assail. Most stuff is packaged so that a bottle will cover about 5-8 acres, so a bottle of each will last you a long long time. I don’t see that either compound is listed “For AG Use only”, but Google the labels first and read them to make sure. Both Delegate and Assail are in excess of a couple hundred dollars per bottle, but it will be much cheaper in the long run than purchasing bottles and bottles of homeowner products like Triazicide. Both Assail and Delegate are Reduced Risk pesticides, but very effective.
I would not have your farmer friends buying Restricted Use Pesticides for you. It’s against the law and both you and they can get into trouble. You don’t want the TN Dept. of Ag coming after you next!
If you want to purchase restricted use products, just obtain the applicator’s license. It’s not that hard to obtain a private applicator’s license, and it will enable you to legally purchase any RU products you want.
Avaunt is a fine insecticide for fruit that handles PC and various caterpillars and other pests as well, including Jap beetles. It is not restricted, but is for agricultural use only which should be no problem for you. That is the best overall unrestricted tree fruit insecticide available, IMO. Much better than a pyrethroid, unless you are gunning for stink bugs, because it is soft on predatory mites and doesn’t encourage mite outbreaks like the pyrethroids.
City…Keystone Pest Solutions has available just about anything you would ever want and evidently don’t ask any questions.
They have Avaunt, Imidan, Lorsban and others. They also have just about any fungicide you would ever need. Olpea’s prices on Captan from Midwest sound very good, but after visiting their site a while back it looks like larger buyers are quoted lower prices. Hard to say what you might have to pay.
KPS is probably worth looking into, and their site is nice…you can see the label, MSDS, specs etc right from the product page. Shipping is extremely fast, safely packed and reasonably priced.
I’m not BTW in any way affiliated with KPS, just naming a seemingly good supplier…that’s all.
Thanks ya’ll ! (as us southerners say!) @mamuang asked a great question that I’ve thought a lot about- stickers. What I have been doing is putting about a teaspoon full of joy hand-dishwashing liquid per gallon of spray as a sticker. I know there must be better stickers but the limited places I shop doesn’t have them and I’ve never known where to order them. This brings up a question I have always had: Why in the world don’t ALL insecticides come with stickers? When would you NOT want your spray to stick to the plant better? Anyway, I’m all ears for name and source of stickers…
@Olpea , as always, your reply was extremely informative, and
in this case you almost gave me too much information!! haha No, I’m very, very happy to get all of your info, and I’ll check on all those. But if you have a couple favorites, let me know.
BTW, within 3 miles of my house is both a Farmer’s Co-op, a farm supply store that sells lots of liquid spray products, and a Crop Production Services location. SO between those 3 I should be able to find something on your list and probably more, which is why I asked you to pick your favorite. Sounds like @alan 's favorite is avaunt…so I’ll be checking on that for sure (Thanks Alan!) I also will be looking for @appleseed70 's favorites (thanks!)
The stickers really work. When i spray with copper, for weeks and weeks I can see it on the plant.
I’ve often wondered the same thing city. I guess if you tank mixed various things you’d want to just add one type of sticker spreader. Some stuff does have the sticker already, the Captan I recently bought has sticker spreader in it already.
BTW…KPS has the Pinene II sticker, I think Pinene is the primary ingredient in most stickers. It has a rainshield, spreader and UV protectant in it I think.
Cityman,
I really don’t have a favorite because it depends on the time of season and what I’m trying to control, along with a few other factors (i.e. I try to use Reduced Risk pesticides later in the season when it’s closer to harvest.)
I’ll just give you a summary of my spray program. Early in the season I use Actara for two sprays because it does a very good job controlling PC (has very good curative activity) and controls stink bugs. Then I switch to a pyrethroid, possibly rotating with a Lepidoptera specific insecticide like Belt or Intrepid. Finally finishing with Assail or Delegate. Delegate controls all major pests of stone fruit in addition to SWD.
In terms of stickers, there are times when a sticker is not necessary. Good stickers are expensive, which is probably part of the reason they are not included. Another reason is that they would not be helpful in areas where there is no expected rainfall at the time of application.
I’m not sure your soap would qualify as a sticker. My guess is that it’s more of a spreader and would not provide much resistance to wash off. Most surfactants in this category are actually spreader/stickers (not just stickers). The sticker component is what increases the cost. This year I purchased 5 gallons spreader which had no sticker. As I recall it was less than $20/gal. I use it as a spreader for herbicides because they don’t need a sticker. A spreader is helpful to obtain better coverage on the leaves of weeds because it breaks the surface tension of the water (like your soap). It keeps the spray material from beading up on the leaves.
Protecting peaches is not the same game as apples and each species has its unique challenges. Apples and E. plums are more susceptible to mites and scale, so when you use a pyrethroid you run the risk of getting flare ups of these pests.
I do use a pyrethroid for most of my mixed fruit orchards without a lot of trees, but sometimes there is a price to pay. At two sites there was a flare up of white fly, which in all my years I had never seen on apple trees. I suspect it was the result of the imbalance caused by the pyrethroid. Once they are there whitefly are almost impossible to knock down with anything. At least when mites show up there are effective control measures.
So I give a thumbs up to pyrethroids for peach, pear and J. plum pests as far as problems and positive results in southern NY. Here I don’t have to worry about stinkbugs much until the second spray after petal fall. They generally show up when the peaches have a bit of size.
Olpea
Thanks for the info on your spray program. I see you use Actara (4A) early and Assail (4A) late in the season. Are they equally effective? Would it be possible to just use one of these for both early and late application?
Blueberry,
It would be possible to use Assail early in the season and for a late application, but would not be practical to use Actara both early and late in the season.
Actara is very strong on both PC and stink bugs, which is help in my area. Stink bugs hit very early here. I see them on the trees at bloom. However, Actara is weak on OFM. It’s not even labeled for OFM or Codling moth. It’s also only approved for two seasonal applications, whereas Assail is labeled for four. Lastly, Actara has a two week PHI, whereas Assail has only a week (making it more practical to use if harvest is approaching).
I use Actara early in the season because of it’s superior control of PC, although Assail is also good on PC, though not quite as good. One big disadvantage of Actara is that it is much more lethal to bees than Assail. There are bee warnings all over the label with Actara. At the farm, I spray after dark partly because it offers some protection to bees, and partly because the wind is calmest. Actara is very easy on other beneficials because it’s locally systemic and absorbed in the leaf tissue. I see lots of lady bugs a few days after spraying Actara. Not so, with a pyrethroid. Lots of dead lady bugs after spraying a pyrethroid.
Actara is about 1/2 the price of Assail, but about 5 times the cost of a pyrethoid.