That is a good idea and probably worth the risk of deep planting. Eventually tests winters come and I lost my Kakis here in SE NY the year before last. They really don’t seem to survive much below 0F. My dead tree has active roots that keep sending up shoots- I grafted one of them over to a native, selected variety I like a lot (Szukis, I think). Now I wonder if I need to bury the section of trunk below the graft- last season I piled up dirt which I’ve pulled away and my graft thrives. Anyone know what Chestnut Hill uses for rootstock of their kakis? Guess I should just look it up and hope they used the same 20+ years ago when I purchased the tree.
I used to bring it inside for the winter, but the Saijo never gave me any fruit.
An old thread, but Dr. Ieuan Evans of Evans Cherry fame strongly advocates for burying the graft below ground in this video and also in this one. He recommends 6" down and finds this gives increased cold hardiness and more resilience to critter damage. He is in a zone similar to mine and I’m thinking of taking this route with the trees I will be planting this spring. Especially since I lost my favorite apple tree to critter damage over the winter.
Dr Evans is well regarded in cold climate gardening circles up here. That he has his own personal greenhouse and has hundreds of fruit trees on his property in Northern Alberta certainly gives him some extra street cred
Resurrecting a old thread. I think there is an advantage for folks without property to plant trees; but expect to have property in a few years. Try what Mr.Ermen says and plant on M27 or similar dwarves. There really is no research about most scions rooting. But if you know you are a year out from getting property; wax tape a section above the graft union. Then cover this with black electrical tape. Which tricks the tree into growing roots. If the trick fails; plant your now permanent dwarf apple tree and use it for scions for future normal grafts. No harm; no foul. If you get roots; you get to plant deep and see the tree as gawd intended it to grow. And the dwarf stock has blessed you with fruiting by now.
I however want to point out, that size controlling rootstocks have been used for over 2000 years. So depending on your definition of “modern rootstock” you could also get feature 3.
Some of the older varieties of apples like Court Pendu Plat - Wikipedia are sensitive to cankers ( Neonectria ditissima)
More so than most rootstocks.
Court Pendu Plat might date back to the romans
So grafting before “modern rootstocks” also conveyed some disease resistance.
M9 for example got it’s now known name in 1912. But it was a renamed variety that has been used as a rootstock for much longer than that.
Around 1930’s the MM series was developed (man made crosses not renaming of old varieties like some of the M series)
Im not sure if you would consider those “modern”? But those clearly convay disease (pest) resistance.
I find the history of rootstock use intresting. If quite often seen people assume that the use of rootstock’s is quite new or modern. Where it’s actually quite an ancient thing.
Keep in mind though that a fruiting dwarf tree, will likely stop fruiting and start vigorously growing once it own roots negate the dwarfing effect of it’s old rootstock.
This topic has mostly been about apples. And i think quite a few of those can root. And all apple rootstocks i know off can root.
But some other species might not.
And if you burry those to low, you might get rot. and no new roots from the scion to keep the tree alive.
Like I said. If the black tape trick does not induce scion rooting in a year’s time; you can not deep plant it. But more scions will root then you realize. Particularly if you wound a bud and rough up the scion bark before wrapping.
After reading I’m a little more confused on where to plant this tree which is supposed to be on BET rootstock. Grandpas says to plant standard rootstock low to on pear trees to avoid suckering. I was planning on putting this one right above that root poking out. Anyone have suggestions?
You can just cut off suckers like once a year if they happen. Unless you have thousands of trees to manage it’s not a big deal. You won’t maybe rot the trunk that way. You probably don’t need possible increased cold hardiness in Zone 9b.
This particular tree looks like it was re-potted and the medium settled down an inch or two lower than it was planted in the field where the dark line on the trunk is, so I’d just plant it to that line.
That’s only the case when the rootstock was employed for a specific purpose other than purely for propagation. In some trees, grafting is performed due to being the easiest way to propagate a variety with no added benefit offered by the rootstock.
Well, you’re able to use a single bud if you’re grafting, so you need a fraction the scion wood reducing your costs.
Unless you’re just going with whatever the absolute cheapest rootstock is with no regard to anything else (like whether the tree survives in your soil/climate and/or produces fruit several years sooner and/or fits in the space available without extensive Summer pruning) you’re probably picking a rootstock that confers some benefit. Or you probably should be if you want to make money and/or produces lots of tasty fruit.
90%+ success rate grafting using one bud per graft with a predictable time frame to produce a tree ready for transplant versus less than that success rate rooting cuttings, wasting lots of scion wood, with variable time frame for how long scions take to root adequately for transplant is, on its own, compelling to most people.
Im not sure, But i think P bet is sown, and the tree is a bit older. So i would search for the root flare. It is probably planted to deep in the pot.
If it was a young tree on a rootstock that easily roots you could plant at any depth (within reason) that still had graft union above the soil. (like a freshly grafted M9 apple, or pear tree on quince roots)
But on sown rootstocks there is a verry specific planting depth.
See this picture. On the left quince rootstock (planting depth doesn’t matter that much.)
And on the right seedling pyrus. Where you can clearly see that below red arrow should be underground. Above red arrow above ground.
Since your tree is older, and on a rootstock that’s sown (i guess)
I would say it’s definitely important to go look for root flare.
Look at this document
Another thing you should probably look at, are circling roots. The caliper of the tree seems quite big for the pot size. So I’m guessing the roots have grown in circles in the pot.
It’s best to water all soil away and look at the roots before planting (if planting in dormant season. Don’t do this with a tree that’s leafed out. Hence why you should buy/plant in dormant season and not spring/summer)
The bendable roots that circled you can plant facing outward and slightly downwards. Thicker roots that circle close to the main stem, could later girdle the tree when thickening up more. And should be removed.
Thanks Oscar. I’m wondering if he removed the upper soil so I can plant there now. Also when I pulled the tree from the pot it didn’t seem rootbound but the roots were growing through the bottom of the container. He had to lop the roots off when I got the tree.
So before I seal the deal here. I’m planning on raising the soil up a few inches to the red arrow. Apologize to ask all my trees are containers so I’d like to make sure it’s right. This is my first in ground tree and it will be exposed to some hot temperatures. It appears to be a bud graft. Do I have it oriented correctly? @clarkinks
For us northern growers, it is my understanding that stone fruit are planted with the graft under the soil because the rootstock are often less hardy than the scion. Up by me standard trees generally handle the cold better and dont get really big. Some nurserys say that in the north standard trees bear earlier as well. I’m under the impression that planting deep helps trees with less than awesome scion rootstock compatability get over the eventual decline. I generally plant on standard rootstock and have pulled my non-antonovka apple trees (which I graft up high so dont bury). Bartlett stocks tend to die back, but OHxF make it so they get planted deep sometimes. All my stone fruit are deep. My orchard is young so time will tell, but some stocks just dont survive above the snow.
