I know 10% is recommended but 5% white vinegar partially worked. Perhaps a heavy treatment was needed. I’ll try again.
Olpea. Thanks for that fact sheet about vinegar. I have some raspberries that I initially mulched with cardboard and arborist mulch. After a couple years I have just replaced the mulch, but let the cardboard rot, since I want more raspberry canes to sprout, which they have begun to do. Unfortunately, bunch of thistles have also sprouted through the mulch. I dug them out, but they just resprout from the roots. I had thought about trying vinegar on them this coming year, so as not to hurt the raspberry canes, but the article indicates that will only kill the tops again. I am trying to avoid Roundup, so I am wondering what others have used on thistles between desirable plants?. Should I just keep digging out the thistles more frequently and pile on more mulch, or try a combination of pickling vinegar/salt often, plus deeper mulch? Will the salt affect the raspberry canes six inches from a thistle? I’m not sure what approach to take on the thistles? Maybe lay little squares of carpeting over the persistent ones?
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Sometimes -I’ve done this with a quack grass we have around here- you just have to remove everything -good,bad, and ugly- from an area, clean the soil by sifting and picking, replant the good stuff and then diligently patrol the borders for incursion. An inorganic mulch that won’t break down quickly, but will help prevent seeds from rooting, can help at that point. Raised beds make it easier for me.
My wife has a big piece of black pool liner that smothers things in a season or two, but I’m not sure I want anything from the rubbery stuff leaching into our food crops, so I don’t use it around edibles.
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Roundup has activity on the tops of thistles and quackgrass, leaves the roots alive and intact. I use some salt in asparagus because it is tolerant to it, don’t know about RB’s.
T.&Q. are really tough weeds for us. When we have a nice soaking rain we pull bushels of quack and thistles. Getting too close to sensitive plants with some of the herbicides that will work on quack and thistles can be fatal to your desired plants, in a hurry.
We try to keep the tops knocked of and avoid any seed development. Roundup used to be labeled at 1/2 rate for seed head suppression but I haven’t seen that label for awhile.
I drenched one of my artichokes with glysophate (generic Roundup) a couple months ago to make space in the garden. The plant is still growing vigorously. No effect except all the weeds and grass in the area died.
I really doubt that artichokes are among the plants labeled as being controlled or killed on the glyphosate label.
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Well the issue is that we can never forget the natural solution is not necessarily what we as man desires. The difficulty is creating the feedback loops that subvert nature to produce what we desire and not the natural thing. Nature, in life and life only, favors maximum density and old growth. Tall old growth trees are the natural winners, and maximum life density occurs around them. We want to mimic the brief period of time before a type of old hardwood evolves to dominate a particular climate. By creating fertile clearings, we constantly battling to hold nature in a precarious point where the natural evolution would be to immediately forrest such a climate. That’s why it’s easier to be symbiotic in small scale but easier to simply measure and restore in the commercial scale. Even if you don’t want to try to get all symbiotic and holistic about it, it’s still worth keeping in mind the way the relationships work to keep an eye on potential side effects.
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I had a farm that was infested with Canada Thistle. After years of spraying Roundup I gave up- it only worked sometimes, usually just knocked down the tops and they came back from roots.
Ask a farmer to give you some Stinger. Only thing that worked for me. Serious.
Good information for those that have the problem. Stinger is not legal in my county but fortunately I don’t have a problem with Canadian Thistle.
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Stinger is Clopyralid. Which has made the news because it’s extremely persistent. Survives the compost pile easily. Be careful!
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Yeah it’s something you don’t want to use if there is any way around it.
I farm organically, but I do keep a jug of triclopyr around to deal with poison oak. It’s fairly effective on thistle as well.
Triclopyr breaks down fairly quickly in soil.
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I just came across this article about a boiling-hot foam treatment that is like throwing boiling-hot water onto the weeds but stays hot longer due to heat dissipating more slowly.
I could see this being useful for areas where you want to kill everything like a sidewalk or driveway.
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Ineffective on Bermuda grass.
Is this thread still alive with the words organic in the title? Good times!
Yeah, I will stand by smothering weeds as a great way to go. Now that the COVID hit and we are dialed into online shopping, there is no shortage of cardboard sent to the house. Carry on good people. 
AS a newbie to the site, I certainly hope the “organic” will continue.
A ‘weed’ can be looked upon as your garden/soil doctor. It will only grow when there is an imbalance in your soil biome or toxicity.
Each type of ‘weed’ will signify a lack of or overabundence of a particular
mineral/amino acid etc in your soil.
Remedy/balance your soil and you will not get ‘weeds’.
To spend money on ‘cides’ is to exacerbate the problem IMO.
If weeds won’t grow there, I’d say you have a real problem. ( unless you have mulch or physical barriers of some sort )
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In areas where i dont have food growing… i use regular 5% vinegar + salt + a little dishsoap…
One spray on a hot sunny day and weeds are dead quickly. May have to repeat every 6-8 weeks.
In my garden i use a stirrup hoe… shallow cultivation… after 3 or 4 times… very little weed seed left to germinate.
I use cardboard and mulch around fruit trees, cane fruit, berry bushes etc…
I would like to try the 10% (or higher) vinegar… but have no good source for it… best i remember it is quite a bit more expensive … and the 5% works well enough for me.
To have good success with the 5% mix I use… you need to pick the right day / conditions to max success. Hot and sunny…
If you spray it on a cool cloudy day… not going to work near as well.
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My sister has a small garden with tons of weeds, the weeds were 3-4 feet high. After the landscapers pull out the weeds and did the sprinkler system. My husband and I then put down plastic bags and thick mulch on top, maybe 4-5 inches, 8 years later, I only occasionally have to pull something out something every 3-4 months. No spray, no nothing.
$19 for a gallon, 30% concentration… At good old Wally World, at least my local store has it in stock.
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