Sorry, I was basing my response on Koko’s post. I’m at the orchard now. Here is the tree in question.
Voles act different here. Here are some wood chips we laid down in the last year. There won’t be any voles.
Here is where a tomato start used to be. They eat my starts.
My cell camera is screwing up and not showing the right photos, but I need to get back to work.
Yup. There is a 12 gauge monofilament wire running through the T’s made from PVC. The wires are barely visible in the top photo on the left against the sky. The wires run along the length and width of the orchard. The wires are used to support tenting over with knitted bird netting.
Mike
“In your climate. In mine, it will only make the bermuda grass mad.”
We deserve something in exchange for Brown rot, Peach Curl, Pear Psylla, Codling Mot, Plum Curcullio, Japanesse Beetles, and all the other fungal rots, bacterial rots, scabs, mildews etc. etc. etc.
I’d trade them all for some Bermuda problems.
Mike
In 2012-13 ago when I first started the orchard where it is today, I used shredded wood both as a mulch and hoping that it would decompose and amend my verrrry clay soil.
That worked great while the trees got established for two-three seasons and then the wood broke down enough to cause a weeding nightmare. I found that I was using 2-3 hours of my very precious and limited weekend orchard tending time just dealing with the weeds.
The silver lining in last year’s total NO FRUIT scenario was that it gave me time to do the weed fighting by laying down the weed block (5 ounce heavy 10 year, I hope) in the walking rows between the tree rows.
Taking note of the vigor discussions threads over the last two years, I added coarser HARDWOOD chips on the surface in the growing rows beneath the trees expecting and hoping that they will break down more slowly.
It took me all summer (NO ONE TOUCHES MY BABY BUT ME) and immediately I could see that the mulched rows had one one hundreth of a percent ( 1/100%) of the weeds in comparison to the walkway rows that were waiting for the cloth and the growing rows waiting for the chips.
I had to do each row individually including, the landscape timers to hold the chips in place, because the growing rows are raised and mounded and the chips would slide off the cardboard if I didn’t.
The hoped for payoff is this year when I will have more time to devote to the reason we do this stuff in the first place…BRAGGING RIGHTS for our fruits.
As I like to say… " WHY JUST DO IT WHEN YOU CAN OVERDO IT"
Mike
For some reason, the ants around here love fresh wood chips. I mostly used aged wood chips and bark mulch now. I still get weeds that grow on top, the worst being glechoma hederacea (aka ground ivy, creeping charlie). I hand pull the weeds close to trunks and spot spray everything else with glyphosate. The perimeter is where it mostly needs to be sprayed. Before spraying, I look over the weeds quick to make sure there aren’t any suckers coming up from the tree.
Well I guess we can conclude to some degree that all weed management/mulching is local.
My Fort Knox is kinda similar to yours but on a much smaller scale, and so far has narrow weed block around the perimeter of the bed, topped w/landscape timbers, with holes drilled to stablize 1" chicken wire supports. One of the supports is a long piece of rebar to ground the chicken wire in anticipation of putting a hot wire around the perimeter which will be isolated via pvc supports. This last year, in addition to doing this around the perennial beds, I converted the fruit trees from an open vase structure (read come on varmints I got fruit) to a trellised system where I can more easily support the fruit and protect it from birds.
As far as mulch is concerned, I used to sheet mulch, but decided to save that up for my compost capsules. Since we live in the eastern rain forests and leaves are abundant, I collect and use those instead of wood chips and veggie waste for mulch and I find them a much better sun block to discourage weeds. The disadvantage is that they could blow away, but, that is the second function of the chicken wire - to corral the leaves. Come fall, the grandkids and I just dump the leaves inside the chicken wire. Works great.
Cherries.
Apples.
You will find that the trellised trees are much easier to maintain in that its easier to spot problems and to take action to fix.
Mike
I have used tons of wood chips over time and have not seen any ill effects. I have heard that hardwood would be more compatible, but mostly what I can get easily/for free on the island is softwood chips from local arborists. But usually they sit out in the rain for at least a few weeks or months before I get to spreading them, and I tell myself that whatever badness might be in the resin-y chips has decomposed or washed out. Our soil is on the acidic side so I usually spread a quart of lime in a ring around the trees anyway before mulching, and figure this will cancel out whatever acidifying effect the chips might have. Once the grass and other weeds get going they grow like mad in the decomposing chips, which I take as an indication that it can’t be too toxic a medium.
The comment about at least 4" thickness being needed to suppress grass is right on; less and it drives right through. As my trees have gotten bigger it seems less and less realistic to mulch them out to the dripline; a tree with ~10’ branches would require three cubic yards of chips, and the bucket on our biggest tractor probably holds about a yard. So I get by with some combination of mulch, string trimmer, and bushhog. I also have the sense that the voles can’t make much headway in coarse wood chips; probably it would be different if we lived in a drier place where it wouldn’t densify so fast.
At home our driveway is off a busy two-lane road into the city, and a couple years back I put out a sign at the end of the road saying “WOOD CHIPS WANTED”. Nothing happened for a month or so, then I came home to find what must have been close to 100 cubic yards of chips next to the road - a tree crew was doing a big job nearby, and they were happy not to burn fuel driving the chips back to wherever they normally go. We’ve used them to mulch around fruit trees and berries, between the rows in the garden, and around fences, and meanwhile it’s been decaying slowly to the point where some of it is nearly compost - between our debits and the natural process I’d say we’re down to 20 cubic yards or so. Being able to get tons and tons of good organic matter for free is a nice compensation for the traffic; I kept the sign and it will probably go back out next year sometime…
I use cardboard/woodchips…i really like it…but man does the ground ivy like to grow in it. I smothered out a big flower bed overtaken ground ivy last summer…by the end of the summer it was already reinvaded…i actually mowed it a couple days ago it was so thick in there (the ivy is all in bloom here).
On bigger trees i don’t use woodchips anymore…i just mow the grass super short around the trunks and out some ways…make sure i water trees if we get a dry spell (which we never do anymore). I think woodchips/mulch help a lot establishing trees the first few years…after i think trees can handle if you keep the weeds trimmed back.
I’ve been using less and less woodchips as my trees have gotten bigger. In my soil (sand) and rainy climate trees grow more then enough.
Woodchips do keep things cleaner, but need to be replenished about every year.
I use the woven fabric for it’s durability in my second nursery (small piece of land in Westchester county). It is great for row middles but sometimes does an inadequate job of letting water through if you are counting on rain to irrigate. In my nursery I cover it with mulch hay which slows the water from running off of it and more passes through the fabric. Spun landscape fabric isn’t as strong (always has to be covered with organic mulch) but it does a better job of letting water pass through.
Woven fabric lasts a very long time if you cover it with hay- no UV break down.
I keep an eye on Craigslist for tree guys looking for a place to dump. Last year, I was working primarily from home and every time I heard guys working in the neighborhood I would grab the dog and go ask. Now if she hears a chainsaw anywhere in the neighborhood she thinks it’s time to walk.
Alan,
I use the fabric only in walkway between the rows of trees. The trees only got cardboard and wood chips. The trees are on raised rows and the roots pretty much keep to the mounded area which catches plenty of rainfall.
At the start the entire orchard floor was mulched with shredded wood chips and it kept the weeds down for the first 2-3 years but then as it broke down it was weed heaven.
This fabric is the woven type and has micro holes punched in it throughout which does let easy water penetration .
I have soaker hoses in case supplemental watering is needed but even on last year’s rain challenged summer I never had to consider any supplemental watering.
Mike
I wasn’t explaining that as a warning to you because I saw you were only using it in the walkways and read about your use of cardboard. I’ve never heard of woven having holes punched in it- the weave is supposed to accomplish water penetration, even if it can do a poor job of it- especially on slopes, but it’s been a problem for me even on flat ground- maybe you have a brand that realized the potential problem of the more standard product.
I didn’t take it as a warning. I was just clarifying that my trees were mounded and that I did not use the weed barrier under the trees. the mounding was not apparent from the photos and others might not have realized.
The weed cloth I used is DEWITT PRO 5. Below is the link to the company’s page and below the link is a copy of the product description.Is is “Needle Punched” ( whatever that means) It is smooth and I do believe that on a slope much of the water would run off this stuff.
http://www.dewittcompany.com/PRO-5_Weed-Barrier®__5_nbspOZ__.aspx?productid=76&categoryid=47
**"O-5 Weed-Barrier® is the industry’s best 5 oz. woven, needle-punched, polypropylene fabric designed for professional and commercial use. PRO-5 Weed-Barrier® has been approved by leading landscape architects and most government agencies. PRO-5 conserves soil moisture, increases growth, and prevents unwanted weeds from germinating. PRO-5 is striped every twelve inches to aid in plant alignment.`"
Mike
Dewitt makes the stuff I use, but it’s been at least 3 years since I’ve purchased any. I expect it’s the same stuff and that my warning applies but I can’t be sure. Their description is about as reassuring as any average advertisement.
I used the Dewitt Pro 5 on my peony beds, after a few years the quack grass grew right into the weave. Pulling the whole mess up was a lesson for me in hard brutal labour. I would rather till or mow the rows. That said, I am contemplating re purposing it around the trees in the lawn, a much smaller area that is easier to remove if I have to.
The real lesson here is to lift the fabric while you still can. I expect to have to do so annually in the nursery where I use it and it has kept the area under control with mostly the same fabric for 20 years because I put hay over it (that is hay with noxious seeds, because it’s a lot cheaper than straw) which extends the life of the fabric indefinately. An occasional tough weed penetrates fabric and soil and you shave those off with a sharp hoe before lifting.
I can imagine regions in the country where weeds are tougher than in the northeat, but we do have long days and regular rain during the growing season.
Thanks, lifting the fabric will be what I do now, I may even consider it for my vegetable garden between the rows. It is still in good shape and I certainly don’t want to throw it out.
I’m pretty pleased at the discussion sparked by this. I was somewhat counting on a short/dismissive view of it and I’m very pleased to see that it’s not as cut and dry and some would say.
My bigger need for mulch at this point is mowing. It’s getting too difficult for the land owner to get around the trees with their rider mower without damaging them. Add to that no fruiting and I was wondering if the expense would be worth it. My history has shown very much that weeds are only slowed by the barrier fabrics, not stopped.
@alan I can see how with straw it may be easier to lift the fabric every year, but if I’m putting down 9"+ of mulch/woodchips, that’s a lot of digging out every spring to ‘reseat’ the fabric. I can see how it would work, but it sounds very labor intensive. (probably just a long weekend once a year, but still…)
My planting location is out in the country and in an area converted to wild/prairie flowers. Moles, voles, raccoons, deer, squirrel, chipmunks…you name it and I have it to contend with. While I can’t stop the world from happening, I don’t care to make a comfortable home for any of them either.
Thank you everyone for your input!
Here in the South, we have all of those…and Bermuda grass. But there are compensations, I guess. Already getting some peppers from new plantigs outside, and tomatoes are getting big. Should get some cherries in a few days, maybe bigger tomatoes in a week or two.
Then again, there is that period in late July and August where everything just tries to die because it’s so hot.
Actually when I think about it, forget what I said. There are no compensations to being a gardener in the South. 
