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Hard to tell from the pictures, Ulysses. Do your 2015 raintree and 2016 raintree Nadias look the same?
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The leaves from the 2016 tree are much smaller than the one from 2015.
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I went back and looked thru all the pictures going back to last yr. We may just be seeing natural variation in a variety that apparently is amenable to changes in stem length. As @Ozymandias pointed out some growers spray gibberellins to make the stems cherry like. That’s probably what lead to the one on the cherry sizing card that looks cherry like. So if chemicals can change stem length weather possibly could also. Apples are longer in climates with cool springs than in warm. Cool springs and growth regulators are what gives the long typy Red Delicious apples seen in grocery stores. Down here in our warm springs RD is a blocky apple. Nadia stems might be the same. The long stems are in the PNW @Vincent_8B @Bradybb, @Antmary in Omaha post 1475, and @Drew51 post 1474 where early development slows down due to cool spring weather. From what I can tell the short stemmed fruit reported here is mostly in CA and TX.
In addition @Vincent_8B stems are long but not as long as I thought because his fruit is still not fully developed. Even @itheweatherman stems look somewhat long when the fruits are very small. But very short like mine when the fruit is fully developed.
I think Nadia is once again the fruit that keeps on giving.
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Right after I posted earlier, I went out and was looking at my Nadia again. I noticed another black knot and when I traced it back to cut it off, I noticed fruit. It looks like a single branch set 4 fruit, spaced over about a foot.
Black knot on left, fruit on upper right:
Of course, I had to go over my Nadia and the two other non-productive plums (Flavor Supreme & Mariposa) looking for more. All I found was more black knot (8-10 total), no more fruit.
I think I’m bucking that trend- mine look to have very short stems. I don’t even see them- it looks like the fruit is attached to the branch.
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It looks like your bark is reddish brown. My tree is grey. Your leaves have red in them too. I haven’t seen that before.
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I will keep updating but here Seattle very cool it might take a long time for them to ripen and hopefully squirrel won’t see ripen ones.
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I think now or next year everyone try to buy new Nanda from your local Biringer contributed nurseries not from Raintree and wait for fruiting and see.
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I would disagree, the nursery that was licensed to clone it shows short stem fruit.
As does the nursery licensed in Belgium.
Not me, as the original nursery shows short stem. I think if any screw up the long stems are it.
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Cherry is often applied to size yes but Cherry {space} Plum is the common name for (p. cerasifera) and Cherry {dash} Plum or trademarked names like pluerries refer to genetics. Euro plums are in fact 3x tripling of the 2n Cerasifera, formally thought to be a cross and doubling with Sloe plum.
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I think you are on the right track here. Nadia could be predisposed to producing fruit with short or long stems, and which type you get may just come down to local factors. (possibly to include rootstock)
I am skeptical that this is some kind of giant case of mistaken identity because Nadia is just so new, and there are only a handful of sources of it in the US. If they were sourced from some small-time seller I might understand how someone would look to make a buck by throwing the wrong label on a bunch of plum trees, but that doesn’t seem plausible here.
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This just in, LOL.
Hi Pat,
I hope you’re well.
Nadia has a short stem.
If you have seen photos of it with a longer stem, they will be of Nadia when the original breeder was experimenting with chemical/hormone stem-elongation (I cannot remember of the top of my head the name of the chemical used, though no doubt you would have some idea). This was way back, pre-2007. As far as I am aware, no one has tried stem elongation since then; most I have spoken with have felt the short stem is better in terms of packaging.
I would have sent a photo through, however, I recently updated my computer (and switched from Mac to Windows) so I do not have easy access to any decent photos. I apologise for that.
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards,
Tim
Does that settle it? Yes? No?
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Oh, I asked him that if the stem elongation was a 2007 thing, does it make sense that folks are still buying trees with fruit with long stems in 2015-16? Maybe these are a sport. We’ll see.
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No but it helps. The cherry like photos were marketing hype. No surprise there.
There’s still the question of what do @Vincent_8B and @Bradybb have? Nadia or something else? Does stem length vary due to growing conditions? If not then some of these appear not true to type.
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I won’t suspect fraud at all. But mistakes can happen. This variety is all controlled in the US by Brandt. They control who gets a license to propagate Nadia. If we could get pictures to Brandt we’d probably have an answer. I have Kevin Brandt’s email address if anyone has ability to send him our long and short stemmed photo’s. I’m a bit computer challenged in that regard: Kevin@brandtsfruittrees.com
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Yes, Vincent got a Carmine Jewel on a rootstock and it looks nothing like other Carmine Jewels. For one it’s not a bush but a tree, I would never guess it was a Carmine Jewel. So yeah rootstock could be a factor for sure.
Yes it could be a sport, or it is not Nadia. Or they were treated or grafted.[quote=“JustAnne4, post:1696, topic:197”]
Does that settle it? Yes? No?
[/quote]
Well for me it confirms what I have been saying, so yes it settles it. I believe the botanist describing the tree for the patent was looking at fruit from a treated tree, no doubt. The Aussies say short stem, works for me!
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Another response from the second question. I sent him a pic of the long stem pointy fruit.
Hi Pat,
As I am not an expert in growing techniques, my explanation (regarding the stem elongation via application of a chemical) is likely very inaccurate. If further clarification is required, I’d recommend Gavin Porter whom I have CC’d in on these e-mails.
So, I did a little digging, the experimenting that was done by the breeder to elongate the stem was the application of the chemical Gibberellin/Gibbberellic acid (I am not sure as to what exactly), simply to test how much more ‘cherry’ like he could make Nadia look. This was to existing trees, not the production of new trees, or a new variety of Nadia exhibiting longer stems. In subsequent season, those trees all produced Nadia with short stems. So those trees would not be being used to produce new trees now.
If there are new trees (naturally) producing Nadia with a longer stem and more pointed/heart shaped, then there may be a sport somewhere along the way (that we are unaware of) leading to this. This is well outside my area of knowledge, so I can only guess at what has happened. It is, however, part of Gavin Porter’s area of expertise as he handled the original PBR application, and so I will pass this matter on to him.
Thank you for bringing this matter to my attention, I will be very interested to hear what is happening.
Regards,
Tim
So @fruitnut was right - he believes the long stem was a temp version purely for looks which clearly reverted.
I’ll post any replies from the the fellow he mentioned and with this, I’m out.
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I noticed all my plums and pluots have a 2cm stem.
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Mine are mostly 1-2 cm. A few slightly longer up to 1 inch. Nadia, the miracle cherry plum, is the shortest of the lot, less than 1 cm.
The real miracle will be if this thing actually lives up to the hype and tastes something like a cherry…!!
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Yes some are a bit shorter here too.[quote=“fruitnut, post:1703, topic:197”]
Nadia, the miracle cherry plum
[/quote]
LOL! I have to try and keep the few fruit I have till September, it’s ripe here early September. I may not be able to?
I just hope it’s good, don’t care if I taste cherry. I would like to try those last two pluerries too. The first doesn’t set well out east.
I grafted the Vermont plum, and very curious about that one too.
Jesse S described it as "thin skin, meaty, and mango sweetness. "
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