Pakistan Mulberry in Zone 7 possible? (+ trying & growing PawPaws, Persimmons etc.)

Weeell, long story short… As in Doctor Who, every planet has its North. So there’s South in Russia.
On that South they consider mulberries to be good for children and birds, but bad for cities and properties/farms (because they’re large and produce lots of juicy and colorful berries which stain). So they consider growing mulberries and selecting varieties as… ehm… somewhat not serious or so.

And that’s exactly what garden nurseries’ owners think about mulberries. Which is why when people eventually decided that they want mulberry plants of exact varieties, none of nurseries had them. But, South, as I said, consider growing them as nothing serious, which is why lots of nurseries decided to sell whatever (seedlings or the only variety they had) under several most valuable names.

And as you might know, Russia is mostly northern country, where growing mulberry is not considered to be possible until recent times. So most mulberry plants in Russian are wild and semi-wild plants with tiny berries which feed birds on streets of Southern towns. And of course on countryside, where noone give them names.

Northern (main, so) part of Russia found possible to grow mulberries only recently. Mostly. So now we are in a stupid situation: we have several names of several selected varieties, but can’t trust to any of nursery regarding true they are or not.

Most mulberry breeding was done in Ukraine, but not for berries. They were breeded in an institute of silk-producing, so they selected the tastiest (for silkworm) leaves :smiley:

Now best (for me) part: I live in Chelyabinsk. That’s South Ural (South, but not Southern! :D) - zone 4 more or less. We have up to -35 in winters, snow and frosts come in mid/end October and last until mid/end April, when suddenly comes summer temps. In May we might have either +30 or below zero though. So crazy weather (but I guess everyone from anywhere might say the same about their weather). Aaand… I have found some friends from some Russian places where mulberries are grown. And obtained some cuttings to clone them and plant to my garden. I did so last year, so this is their first winter which will show which of them survive and which not. Also I had a 2016-planted mulberry plant which lives totally fine and gave several first signal berries in 2020. Most of my plants do not have a variety name except the name of the guy who gave it to me. So there are Timur, Eugenia, Oleg, Michael, Roman and other noble persons in my garden. And I can’t wait to meet them this spring. I have about 40 of them and something else too.

I guess there can be more questions. I am here to tell the stories, so please ask. But I know very few about Russian varieties. Probably because I don’t think I can truly find them. Except one.

There’s a variety called Shelly. Шелли in Russian. It came from Ukraine, is large-leaved Morus alba with black fruits of excellent combination of sweetness, sourness and aroma. Should be a dream of anyone, because everybody who has this plant, say that they don’t want to have any other black-berried M. alba. Only M. nigra can be a competitor by taste according to them.

I have a tiny plant of Shelly. But I dunno really if it survives our winter(s). Will see.

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i couldn’t blame them for thinking that way. Pakistan will never be able to compete vs nigra in eating quality,but the one thing going for pak is that it is actually pretty good(nigra simply set the expectations so high), and pak mulbs also produce some of the largest ripe berries across the board early in the season, whereas nigra berries are at least a couple months away from ripening.

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And paks aren’t known here. I dunno why, but here we have only albas and some, very few, nigras.

Pakistan mulberry is my personal craziness. I ate only dried berries, but I am insane of idea to have such cute candies on a tree. Which is why I am seeking for a source of scions and seeds… But in Russia, as I said, paks aren’t known.

nice to hear stories! I have many Shelli no.150 plants also, talked to Leonid Prokazin who first started to propagate that cultivars, he knows probably the most from the Russian speaking world (even though in Ukraine), but talking is hard through google translator :smiley: . It is said to have the perfect balance of big fruit, transportability and taste of all more known slavic cultivars. Also the only really bred for fruit cultivar, Galicija, from 2002 , is truly a monster to produce big berries, but apparently Shelli is a bit more tastier. We will see, hopefully coming summer both of mine will make tasty treats!
Hopefully we can trade some seeds in the future, if scion wood from there to here (and vice versa) is too difficult. I plan to breed a first Finnish mulberry :smiley:

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didn’t realize you are in Russia! Glad to see someone orcharding in russia in this forum!
anyway, i think the reason why it is not popular there is because it leafs out so early at the slightest warm ups. It seems to be the napoleon of mulberries when it comes to russian winters, especially if a warm up is followed by a bone-chilling freeze, which may kill trees.

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In fact, I guess we gotta try sending scions too. Just because what do we loose? Some sticks and some coins for shipping aren’t too big expenses for a success in sharing mulberries. So will see what survives this winter. We already had -26C (I monitor lowest and highest temps), but probably that’s not the worst.

Ahh! BTW. Does anyone grow pak seedlings?

speaking of severe winters, i managed to get pak to grow on its own roots using iba hormone. Growing them on their own roots in russia might be a viable option against die-back, because to kill the pak specimen, the deadly condition should be able to kill it down to its roots, Grafted specimens are inherently weak at the graft junctions, and any die back towards the junction equates to loss of the desired cultivar.

the only issue about pakistans being able to bud out from below soil level is that it will be like trying to get plantain bananas to fruit in phoenix AZ-- the above-ground trunk and foliage gets mushy in the cold of december-- way before the trunk and foliage have reached blooming maturity, and while the below-ground corms are still alive to over-winter and resprout when it gets warmer next spring, the subsequent growth won’t be able to reach maturity when it gets cold again the following december. Thus said, growing plantains as perennials there is possible, but the yearly growth won’t result in fruit production as the gestation period for plantain pseudostems is > than 1 year.
from my experience with pak, mulbs, it needs to have seasoned wood(at least a year old) to start producing, so if it is subject to severe dieback every december and resprout from its roots the following spring, it may never be able to produce, or produce little, despite having been planted many years ago

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All my attempts to put pakistan mulberries on their own roots failed so far.
Tried root cuttings first - failed
Tried like 10 airlayers then on my bigger tree, only 1 create very minor roots… Planted them all either way, still viable with green bark when scratched but no roots, let’s see when the weather warms up if at least 1 or 2 take… I have like 50 or 60 cuttings planted including the failed airlayers branches which were still alive and the one with tiny roots. I’ll report back in 2-3 months.

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Hmm, I had two cuttings and both rooted. Seemed easy to root. maybe it’s not Pakistan? I think I got it from a well known member here? I used pure DE to root the cuttings. No hormones. Mine won’t fruit till probably next year. I guess it will be easy enough to tell what it is once it fruits.

Pretty sure it’s pakistan @Drew51, maybe another cultivar or origin but not easy to root…

. Original tree with the airlayers on

Airlayers removed and some put on pots and others in ground, but only 1 had tiny roots the others were placed as cuttings. I’ll report in early spring if I have any survivor

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Interesting plants! Nice to see photos. When I said it may not be Pakistan, I meant mine. I find the more tropical Alba or other species besides nigra, seem to root easily. The more hardy Alba seem stubborn to root. I grafted those types. Like Oscar and the white mulberries. The less hardy shangrila and worlds best I rooted cuttings. I have since lost a few I need to replace one day.

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Shangri la and Oscar are mine best to root from cuttings. All cuttings just take

Have not tried the pakistan yet, but all the others I just scrape a stick and stab it in the ground. Just stabbing in the ground has averaged two trees every ten sticks. Sometimes way more.

What is your opinion of Shangri la?Some say the flavor isn’t very good.

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Well I saw some videos showing huge berries, juicy and tasty… So far mine is not showing that, hopefully it gets bigger berries once it gets older.
I lost the count of how many cultivars I have, possibly over 20
The best one MORUS Nigra
Second place for Gelso Nero

Shangri la - Huge beautiful leaves

. Gelso Nero bears with heavy clusters and berries are very very juicy and NOT GRASSY in taste - love them

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Looks great! However “gelso nero” means simply “black mulberry” in Italian. That’s regarding berries as I see, because the plant looks like alba.

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@Jah, I know it means black Mulberry, it’s an alba or hibrid, that’s the cultivar name sold in Portugal “Gelso Nero”, maybe in Italy has other cultivar name. Love it

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Those leaves are huge!

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This one’s too. According to one Russian article (very short), this should be Morus alba f. macrophylla
I don’t know yet if it survives our winter, but will see. In fact I have about 40 varieties to say “I dunno if it overwinters” about. And 5 to say “Yes, they do!” :smiley:

BTW I have XL hands.

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Hello Marvin, please can you give some update about your Pakistan Mulberry? Does it survived winter and spring frost to the actual date: 5.september 2021. Thank you! @Austro_PawPaw