The only time I got sick was when I tried drying them. I think the point above about the oils going rancid when heated could be accurate – it was only the heating that made them bad. If they were dried at a lower temperature they probably would be fine.
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A technical question here for anyone that knows: To be precise are there known toxic acetogenins in pawpaws or are acetogenins a category that includes both pawpaw acetogenins of unknown toxicity and known toxic acetogenins of other species closely related to pawpaws?
Although I’d like to know the answer, regardless of the answer, I don’t mean to suggest it should probably lead us to not eat pawpaws or to not feed them to our children. Don’t Irish potatoes develop toxins when they start turning green? And I’d guess there’s some trace amount of that toxin even in average potatoes. I imagine there are lots of other such known and unknown toxins in common and uncommon foods. On the other hand, are there any foods that have been proven to have long-term toxicity issues that people would otherwise be inclined to eat if studies hadn’t proven that there are long-term problems (not counting food with trace contamination of lead or mercury, etc. but foods that are toxic by their own nature)? In other words, is there any other food that’s known to be comparable to the worst case scenario with pawpaws?
And lots of produce contains residues of supposedly safe levels of known human-toxic pesticides, and we’ve had very little time to study the long-term impact of many/most of these pesticides (not that I’ll trust the FDA much more if and after I’ve lived to be 150 years old either.) It just seems like there are way too many comparable risks that we all accept to make a big deal out of some theoretical possible long-term problem with pawpaws, especially if the alternative is eating relatively more conventional, store-bought food (which I think is worth avoiding for a lot more than just health reasons.) As to short-term problems, it obviously makes sense for the people that have them to avoid eating pawpaws in whichever ways cause those problems, but I haven’t seen any evidence of a scientific reason to link short-term digestive issues that some people have with potential long-term risks.
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Cousin Floyd ,
I know many people who write these articles don’t even know what a pawpaw is. Take a look at this article because they have no idea what they are talking about http://www.livestrong.com/article/440071-what-are-the-health-benefits-of-pawpaw/ . They hybridized pawpaw and papaya together in the article. The pawpaw also offer incredible health benefits such as cancer fighting properties http://althealthworks.com/1134/the-health-benefits-of-paw-paw-vitamins-minerals-and-possible-anti-cancer-effects/. Like any fruit if people don’t eat to many they are incredibly healthy. Here is the government article that discusses this The Alternative Medicine Pawpaw and Its Acetogenin Constituents Suppress Tumor Angiogenesis via the HIF-1/VEGF Pathway. I’m not questioning the validity of any of the negative things either. 2 aspirin can help you 30 can hurt you so it’s not a surprise. Pawpaw like any wild food have a natural purpose in our diet.
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So as near as I can tell there is next to nothing known about the toxicity of the of the acetogenins in North American paw paws to humans, but there have been a couple studies suggesting that they are potentially toxic.
There are some real world cases of apparent nerve damage that has been attributed to a tropical cousin of the paw paw, but even in this case part of the issue may be a genetic predisposition among some of the population.
http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/PDF/AcetoUpdate3.pdf
As you say though, there are a wide variety of known or potential toxins in foods we consume that cause no detectable injury to humans. Even if compounds in the paw paw are found to be toxic under the right conditions (which I would say is a near certainty) that doesn’t mean they are unsafe to eat.
You used the example of potatoes:
These are obviously extreme cases, but even in nice fresh supermarket potatoes there are detectable amounts of Solanine, but too little to cause toxic effects in humans.
So basically in my opinion it is likely there are potentially toxic chemicals in paw paws, but I haven’t seen any evidence to suggest they are actually unsafe to eat and people have been doing so for centuries.
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Actually, an interesting thought occurred to me for anyone looking for a fairly involved science fair project.
Some people report a bitter or turpentine-like taste in at least some paw paws.
Human taste is actually remarkably effective at keeping us from eating poisonous stuff. (again turning to potatoes for an example, if you read the article I linked in my previous post you will see a bitter taste associated with the poisonous potatoes in many cases)
What would be fascinating would be to take a selection of paw paws that included some of the worst tasting, and test them for the relative presence of some of the potential toxins.
A variation of this experiment might have people sample paw paws as they ripen, recording their impressions of their taste, and also test the paw paw pulp to determine the concentrations of the suspect compounds present.
Another avenue of exploration might be to compare the levels of the compounds in the popular varieties (which are generally considered better than average tasting) to the levels present in the general wild population, etc.
We know there is a range of concentrations observed among the popular varieties, but as a group, are they lower than what one would find gathering in the wild?
I wouldn’t be surprised if bad tastes corresponded to higher levels of potential toxins, but of course we would have to do the experiment to find out.
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Nightshades toxity would be a better study. They impact far more people because they are eaten by most people regularly. A few night shades are potatoes, eggplant, tomatoes, and peppers. I love the flavor as much as the next person but I am careful how many i consume. Here is a good article New insights about Arthritis. My point is not to keep people from consuming nightshades rather be aware most food is poison so no study is needed. We also need to worry about mercury in fish http://americanpregnancy.org/pregnancy-health/mercury-levels-in-fish/ & Low Mercury and High Mercury Fishes - Consumer Reports Magazine. Here is a chart to indicate which fish to avoid https://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/Metals/ucm115644.htm. Apples might be avoided due to lead and arsenic (i eat them anyway) http://www.deq.state.va.us/Portals/0/DEQ/Land/RemediationPrograms/Brownfields/Weaver1-195-1-PB-8r.pdf & https://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/ucm271595.htm. Beef and Pigs that eat GMO grain or gmo grain itself might be avoided for these same reasons (hard on the stomach) http://www.reuters.com/article/us-gmo-pigs-study/scientists-say-new-study-shows-pig-health-hurt-by-gmo-feed-idUSBRE95A14K20130611. Milk might be avoided also (due to the same logic) https://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/dangers-of-cows-milk/. I could go on but exactly what would a person eat if they avoid all of these things? Here is an article about nitrites in meats, cheeses etc. Nitrite (JECFA Food Additives Series 50). Bacon is considered at the top of the watch list for nitrites https://www.livescience.com/36057-truth-nitrites-lunch-meat-preservatives.html. I literally will not eat poultry that is factory farm raised and many people do eat it and seem relatively healthy https://www.alternet.org/food/7-horrifying-things-about-chicken-you-eat. Here are the 21 most dangerous foods http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-dangerous-foods-in-the-world-2015-10 and pawpaw are not in the group and i’ve consumed 5 of the other things on the list as have most people. Pawpaw should be considered a superfood and like all foods be consumed in small quantity. To promote health I would look at this post Omega 3 & the link to vitamins and minerals from produce. You can find negatives about most all foods but you really need to look hard to find problems with the difficult to find and amazingly healthy pawpaw.
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Well, part of why I think paw paws would make a good science fair project is that it would be possible to scope the project such that it would be manageable for a gifted highschooler.
You might even be able to piggyback on an existing paw paw taste test.
…but your main point still stands. There are a lot of foods with potential issues to be aware of. (which was my point back at the start of the current exchange)
Edit: See this taste test which included a column for bitterness on pg 4: http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/PDF/Nutgrowers%20Newsletterfall08fincorr.pdf
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Aronia can be very bitter due to tannins but notice what is at the top of oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC) charts produced by the USDA in 2010 http://www.superberries.com/science. They are not poisonous as far as I know in anyway. Many foods known to be poison and bitter are intentionally consumed by some people in very tiny quantities such as apricot pits Apricot seed cyanide controversy foolishly obscures an effective alternative cancer cure - NaturalNews.com. These pits contain the bitter you are referring to. Be aware seed pits of pome and stone fruits contain cyanogenetic glycosides which turns into hydrogen cyanide gas through an enzymatic reaction when eaten! The seeds can actually cause death very easily https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1190-APRICOT%20KERNEL.aspx?activeIngredientId=1190&activeIngredientName=APRICOT%20KERNEL. Taste can be deceptive sometimes and cannot be relied on to determine fruit or other foods toxity.
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G9-108 KSU Variety: anybody know if KSU has named this one?
Some years back, I pulled some frozen pawpaw pulp out of the freezer and made a batch of cookies.
My daughter ate some that evening, and I took the rest to work. Several people who ate them, including my daughter - and my boss - developed severe GI distress- vomiting diarrhea… boss was out for about 3 days… thought he was gonna have to go to the hospital.
Folks here haven’t let me forget it, to this day, and some are still hesitant to consume goodies that I bring in for breaks/potlucks…lol.
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Wife made some Indiana Pawpaw Cake. It was really good! Had walnuts in it, kind of tasted like banana nut bread.
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I wonder if the neurotoxins found in pawpaws can be stored in animal tissue, or are they neutralized by the liver and later excreted? Pawpaw bacon sounds delicious.
Ok I am posting this video and not really stating the point that came across to me very clear, The man in the video is Neal Peterson and think it speaks strongly on this discussion. If you don’t want to watch the whole video jump to 9:00 or so.
Edit: as I read back in this thread closer It seems others have already made reference I believe to this same video, seem to have the same concerns as do I.
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Clark,
That Carman ‘study’ on GMO grain and pigs was agenda-driven junk science.
Strudel,
While it certainly appears that Neal Peterson has a pronounced nonintention tremor, I’m unaware that anyone has proven or even suggested that his is the result of eating pawpaws.
I’ve certainly seen folks with similar tremors due to Parkinson’s disease and other neurologic disorders, who have likely never eaten a single pawpaw in their entire life.
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True, I did not diagnose anything I am not a doctor and obviously the thought of it crossed your mind as I did not actually even mention a condition, but as a person that has had some concerns of the information but have mostly followed the thoughts of moderating my consumption this possibility concerned me enough to post at the risk of offending someone. And I am no way stating all Parkinson’s disease would be the result of Pawpaw but I am sure open to accepting it might contribute in some cases.
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Very well said.
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I love pawpaws but generally only eat one, sometimes 2 in a given day. They are very rich. My favorite variety is overleese closely followed by all 6 of Peterson varieties and NC-1. I think sunflower is good but not quite on par with the others I mentioned. Sometimes sunflower can leave a strong bitter aftertaste. I do love its firm texture and when it is good, it can be very good.
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@Persimmon1 Very interesting that you like Overleese more than the Petersons. One of the Petersons, either Susquehana or Shenandoah I forget which, was a seedling of Overleese that Neal Peterson thought was better than the parent. But Overleese gets consisently high marks by most tasters. Wouldn’t you know it- it’s the one I don’t have. Yet.
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For me which just goes to say we judge fruit differently, ‘Overleese’ was one of the weaker flavored pawpaw I ate this year of the following:
Susquehana
Shenandoah
NC-1
Regulus
Rigel
Atria
Betria
Mango
Maria’s Joy
Pennsylvania Golden #1
Pennsylvania Golden #2 - I may have tried it too. At the time I didn’t know there are two Pennsylvania Golden.
Taytwo
It just didn’t have the richness I felt that the others do have.
Of the above I really liked: Betria, Atria, Regulus, Rigel, Shenandoah, Susquehana, Mango, and NC-1.
Dax
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I have mentioned before about these pawpaw trees at my cottage, two of them. They were grown from wild seeds as I understand it.
The fruits are starting to brown. They are very good, but this is the only pawpaw I ever tasted.
One of the trees was loaded, probably over 100 fruits.
The tree is about 30 feet tall. Still rather skinny. I have no idea how old it is? Been there for some time, and the guy who planted the wild seed has passed.
I’m in zone 5b/6a so a fairly hardy strain of pawpaws. The trees seem to have fruit every year I looked.
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