PC in peaches

I have never bagged whole trees but I have netted them. Its a lot of work to get the material over the tree and to tie it down. The new branches also start growing all funny due to the weight if you did not put a supporting frame around the net. Then every time you need access to the tree you have to untie the net to get under it, and re-tie when done. With bags you just put them on and then forget about it.

I’m not certain it would be more work in the end, but its more painful work :slight_smile:

Thanks for the tips Scott. I followed a thread here that discussed bagging fruit but it sounded like peaches may rot when bagged. May be worth a try though. I know most people spray and that is just part of having fruit trees. I just have a bit of a chemical phobia( not that it is rational) and would just about as soon eat a peach with a PC grub in it than one that was sprayed. ( the trick is to bite in from the opposite side as the PC entry point and take small bites. Ha ha😜)

Peaches may not do well in plastic bags, but I think any bag with a bit of air circulation will work OK. I have used cotton parts bags with success. Except some I put on too late and they had curcs in them already.

Surround is not a chemical, its just a clay and is perfectly edible. I have eaten a lot of it over the years. I also don’t like to spray poisons due to having my orchard in an area filled with kids, I avoid bug killers other than targeted viruses.

Actually Derby, the real key is to close your eyes and just eat it without looking. The worms have no taste. Also, you wind up having to share less because fewer people try to beg wormy fruit from you. :smile:

You’re not alone. The only “chemical” I let into my backyard is copper spray.

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a couple of years ago my peaches were ripe and ready to pick . I had some PC in them. My daughter and son in law came over and I asked if they wanted to go try a peach fresh from the tree. They were dead ripe, so juicy that it would run down your hand and drip off your elbow. I picked three, handed them each one and said kind of be careful when u bite into them , some have worms. They wouldn’t even try them. Ha ha. More for me.:yum:

That’s why I like to cut my fruit up. Even when there is a worm, I can cut around. Of course, the damage is sometimes so bad that there isn’t much left…

I had assumed that about plastic bags too, but my father had good success with them last year, so I’ll give them a try. I found the cotton bags a pain, as they were heavy enough to knock the fruit off if you aren’t very careful in how you apply it.

I didn’t have a very heavy fruit set on my tree this year so I think I may try to bag some per the sugestions here. I may try a few different methods and see what works the best here. I would speculate that wet humid weather we have here in the spring may be hard on bagged peaches.

Like others, I’ve never bagged peaches with plastic zip lock bags for fear of rot. I bagged mine with nylon footsies. I use the one soaked with Surround (kaolin clay that you can use to spray like Scott mentioned). Some had PC damages but I did not know if I put footsies on too late or the buggers went through the nylon footsies.

Last year, I read that someone use plastic bags successfully with plum so I did, too. It worked beautifully. I think I will try put some plastic bags on peaches this year to see how it works.

If you don’t have many fruit, bagging is not an issue. Once they get into hundreds and thousands, it’s labor intensive. Spraying is my go-to method. Surround and Spinosad are my organic choices of spray lately.

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Hi, I agree with Mamuang. My plums and peaches are way past the ‘twenty fruit’ per tree stage. I have netted whole trees that are 12’ tall (peaches, plums and cherry), but still spray though the netting. Works like a charm! I will still put baggies on my apples if the tree is young and after removing excess buds. My Italian plum is loaded with fruiting spurs this year which is great news, only I might not be here to pick them. Ugh. Might be away on a deserved vacation. Mrs. G

Thanks for the tips mesg. Always so many helpful people here. I know what u mean. Three years ago I had a vacation planed and my peaches were ready early due to an early spring so I had my parents come and get them all while we were gone. But they really enjoyed them :smiley:

I have some of those nylon “footsies” and was wondering if (like mamuang said) bugs do go through the nylon? I can see where there is enough room between the fibers for a sucking insect to push through. Has anyone had damage through these things for sure? The ones I have are those boxed nylon things they have in shoe stores. They kinda resemble womens pantyhose.
Also, I was curious about how an apple for example would color up while inside of these things. Does fruit still get acceptable color inside of them?
One last thing, Do they hold up well in the sunlight and does insecticide or fungicide sprays have any deteriorating effect on them? I kinda like the idea because it seems it would pool or soak up sprays making them perhaps more effective and long lasting. It seems too they should allow enough air infiltration and movement to prevent mold / fungus etc.

Wanted to point out for this thread. In stone fruits (not pomes) PC will generally (though not always) cause fruit drop. The larva is able to mimic ethylene in the fruit, to make the fruit drop. The larva then crawl into the soil to pupate.

With PC, many times it’s not an issue of non-wormy fruit or wormy fruit, it’s an issue of fruit or no fruit. Iv’e seen just about every fruit drop from an untreated tree (and heard the same on fruit forums).

Oriental fruit moth larva also infect fruit and are most commonly recognized by oozing “sap” from the peaches. They cause less frequent fruit drop and are more prone to infect throughout the season, whereas PC is more of an early season pest in most climates (although in warmer climates they are capable of two generations).

The tale-tell sign of PC vs. Oriental fruit moth larva is whether or not the grub has legs. Legless grubs = PC. Grubs with little legs are Oriental fruit moth larva.

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The grubs I have seen in the past in my peaches were leg less. ( good info on pest id olpea, thanks) . They did cause some fruit drop but usually only in fruit that appeared to have multiple entry wounds on them. The peaches that remained on the tree had none or one when I would cut them up. I can see where a bad infestation could cause all the fruit to drop.

Thank you for that insight, Olpea. It seems the only ones I had heard about were the curculios, which I’m almost completely losing the battle against this year on both my Asian plums. Other than the combination of nature’s pressures of late freeze and early arrival of brown rot and other fungal attacks here, I’m chalking the loss up to having spent too many years expecting nature to find its own balance and thus avoiding sprays other than dormant oil. The lesson that I’ve taken from that at this point is that nature really doesn’t consider the fact that I’d like at least some edible fruit from my trees. No predators are coming to keep the egg inserting pests in check. The problem just gets worse as the years go by.

Since plum curculio (PC) have been the ones I’ve read about, and the entry wounds on the plums match the pics Ive seen of curculio damage, that’s what I’ve assumed has been the attacker. I have peaches on one tree that have that drop of sap at entry wounds, too. I haven’t examined the shape of those wounds, though. Plus, some of the plums (not a lot in comparison to other damage) have what looks like little nibbles taken from the skin into a tiny portion of the developing fruit. Earwigs, caterpillars, some other type of insect? I don’t know.

I sprayed copper twice over the winter to help combat the fungi that attack, and from Alan’s spray schedule thread started spraying with Triazicide on a schedule, and then added the Immunox once I found it. However, I’m very cautious about protecting pollinators. So, I don’t spray until the trees have completed petal fall and all grass has been cut to eliminate flowering weeds in the area. The combination of a heavy local infestation and weather conditions not proper for spray application until about a week after petal fall meant that a good percentage of plums became larval incubators.

All this is just a description of how my own many years of resistance to use any form of unnatural protection appears to me to have created an environment where it will take considerable time to turn things around so that I have a chance to once again enjoy the fruits I waited so long for the trees to mature enough to carry. For me, “natural” was increasingly unsuccessful, and it appears that getting things in check is not a one season cure.

Muddymess,

It sure sounds like you have a lot of pest pressure on your fruits. I was surprised your spray wasn’t working for Curc. In my area, I don’t have to start spraying stone fruits until they are out of the shuck. That’s when PC really like to start egg laying.

At one time we had a discussion about Triazicide on the GW forum. It wasn’t working for a few people (although for most it seemed to be working). One possibility discussed was that the Triazicide could have been old and lost it’s potency. Since there is no expiration date on the bottle, it’s possible big box stores could sometimes sell old stock.

I’m a little unsure how your spraying. You mention,

I assume you meant you don’t spray until the trees have completed petal fall? If so, you may need to tighten up your spray interval a bit closer than every 2 weeks and/or increase the number of sprays. I’m assuming you are doing two or perhaps three sprays with Alan’s stone fruit spray schedule?

Thanks, Olpea. I corrected my typo. There should have been a “don’t” in there. I have a tendency to leave out the words “not” and “no” when I type, and wind up saying the opposite of what I mean to. :blush:

Yes, the southeast does have relatively intense insect. weed, and fungal pressures. It goes along with our fall through spring rainfall, high humidity, ground that doesn’t freeze and reduce them, flowering vegetation throughout the year, and hot, humid, frequently drought summers that weaken even older established trees. But mainly, I take the blame for these problems because it took me far too many years to realize that Nature is a recycler and not something that cares whether I get a usable crop of anything. I’ve been providing opportunity and fodder for a whole range of problems. Everything from lack of pruning because I thought trees would seek their naturally best shape, down to refusal to use pesticides/fungicides/bacteriacides simply created a an environment that was increasingly conducive to problem bugs and fungi than to getting edible fruit.

The Triazicide was fresh off the shelf. But as you say, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s fresh. However, the plums blossomed slightly later than usual and we had plenty of days up to the 80’s before that. Also, many (not all) of the tiny fruitlets already had the telltale quarter moon entry point when petal fall was complete. The 2 plums are next to each other and one completes bloom slightly later than the other. I waited for both to be done. The blooms were late, but the bugs were early and heavy on full sized standard trees.

I’ve been spraying every two weeks on the dot. with the pump sprayer that I lug around. Drenching them from bottom to as high as I can get. The very tops are not covered as thoroughly on the plums. Between the insects, late freeze, and very early fungal pressures, I may wind up with enough plums to count on my fingers. I’m continuing to spray those trees, even though I don’t expect produce - just in case they are still harboring nasties.

I started the Immunox late because it took me awhile to find it. Like I said, I did two copper sprays over winter, and trusted that would help with fungal control. Last week we had a week of days that were rainy, overcast, windy, and cooled down from the 80’s and low 90’s. I also walk and observe everything every day. The first day it was clear, I sprayed. It was very deflating to see that brown rot had, seemingly overnight, appeared on peaches, plums, and every one of my just ripe strawberries (the first ones of the year). This is very, very, early for that to show up for me.
I sprayed and removed every fruit that I could find that appeared infected, and continue to remove them. Then followed up with Captan a couple of days later. The Captan on the strawberries halted the outbreak. I hope the combo does as well on the peaches.

Simply as an aside, brown rot was not the only fungal infection that slammed vegetation last week. Powdery mildew on the base of almost every rosebud, and rust on all sorts of ornamental vegetation and weeds. I’ve been ripping out the rusty leaves/plants, but haven’t had the opportunity to spray the ornamentals this week. It was windy yesterday and rainy today…

So, that’s it. Plums and cherries are a wash for this year. Most peaches still have a fighting chance, largely thanks to following yours and Alan’s advice from other threads. Blueberries are as carefree easy as ever. Knock on wood, they always do well. Strawberries have shown me that they will need constant vigilance.

Thanks, Olpea. Any success I get with my fruit I owe to you, Alan, Scott, Fruitnut, and others who have freely shared their knowledge, experience, and expertise. My failures are due to me not looking at things realistically for too long.

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I’m spraying each type with the maximum dose and allowable sprays as per labels because I have concerns about under-treating and thus contributing to resistance in what I’m attempting to eliminate. Though, not being in a closed environment, they can always be expected to return.

Wow Muddymess,

That sounds like some incredible pest pressure. We get lots of rain here, but at least we get some cold winters to thin pests out (sometimes too cold).

My only thought would be to try some permethrin for your stone fruits. I generally don’t recommend it because it really can’t be used on apples (the label says it can’t be used after petal fall on apples, which nullifies any real use in apples) but can be used throughout the season on stone fruits and is effective. It’s a common inexpensive insecticide. I’m not aware of any shelf-life issues with it.

The only other thing I could offer would be to tighten up your spray schedule early in the season when PC is very active. For commercial growers, it’s not uncommon to spray once a week for the first couple sprays because of rain (The Midwest Fruit Tree spray guide -for commercial growers- pretty much recommends it.) For the most part all insecticide residue is gone after 1" of rain (although a sticker will help) unless you are using something powerful like Imidan, or a systemic like a neonic). For contact insecticides like Triazicide and permethrin which are highly susc. to wash off, once the residue is gone the fruit is susceptible to egg laying.

I apologize for giving advice without you asking for it, but as anyone else who is passionate about growing fruit, I can empathize with your crop loss (and your journey) and want to help. I know you will be able to grow stone fruits, especially peaches, since SC is second only to CA in peach production. I have to think there are just a few things to tweak to start getting loads of fruit from your orchard.

I completely agree with your comments about Nature btw.

Olpea, no need to apologize to me for giving advice. You can advise me any day. I’ve been around long enough to be able to consider the source, and know that you speak from experience and a much broader knowledge base on the subject that I will ever obtain.

I read the permethrin page, and will wind up trying some with the intention of using it on surrounding landscape bushes as well. It lists mosquitoes and Palmetto bugs (which are really just giant flying roaches). If it aids in mosquito control, all the better. They are also out in force early this year. The apple trees are well removed from the stone fruits and only one young one is carrying fruit.

The insect and fungi pressures are, indeed, great here. However, I haven’t had deer or bear problems, and the rabbits seem to have many things they prefer over my fruit trees, and get to enjoy the many tree frogs, skinks, and Carolina chameleons that feed on them. And so far, the stink bugs are staying North.

Yes, peaches are important to the state. I think the only reason that California produces more is because it’s a much larger state. The commercial peach orchards are productive in our Upstate (piedmont) where it is cooler and in the sandy soiled areas. I’m right between the two in the area with the hottest summer temperatures, but in a summer rain shadow, and have brick red clay as the natural soil. About a mile away, the soil is sand based. There are negatives to my location, but a positive is that I can try to grow a broader range of plants than in most places - and have at least limited success.

Georgia claims itself to be the peach state, but SC is the the REAL peach state. :wink: :peach:

On to the actual topic of the thread. Curculios hit my peach trees slightly. They greatly prefer the earlier blooming, smooth skinned plums and hit those very hard. Maybe growing a sacrificial plum and destroying all young fruit after they laid their eggs would preserve the peaches from infestation. That would be impractical in a small yard, but might be doable with enough space.