never heard of that variety. Could you please describe it a little more thorough?
Mirabelles typically are quite small fruits similar to a myrobalane, which often leads to confusion to inexperienced growers (doesn’t apply to you of course), yellow ground color with red blush (often speckled), freestone and very sweet (no tart skin). They are not that juicy. There are some varieties but they all are quite similar. The standard is Mirabelle de Nancy. And thats pretty much the only variety you can purchase everywhere looking for a Mirabelle.
Gages on the other hand -as you of course know- are typically bigger than Mirabelles, often clingstone, very sweet and juicy. There are a lot of varieties with different colors. The standard here is Green Gage (not the same as Bavay Green Gage). It is smaller than most Gages but very tasty (very high sugar, juicy).
Since historically there were a lot of different Mirabelles grown in europe but today most are forgotten, I’d like to find out if your Reine des Mirabelles is a known variety here and if I can find it (and if it actually is a Mirabelle or a Gage plum).
I hope its not too much of a hassle, thank you very much in advance.
It is considered a mirabelle-gage cross but to me it is more like a Gage. This is based on my other Gage and Mirabelle plums that fruited (I grew Metz and Nancy at one point, plus I have three Gages fruiting). I have an apricot that came to me considered a peach-apricot cross and I think it is only because it is so big. Similarly I wonder if RdM is just a Gage plum that is smaller so someone called it a cross. Or it could be a cross, I think they are both hexaploids right?
Thank you again Scott, you even did the research. I should have thought about that myself, since “Reine” and “Königin” are the same word in different languages (french and german).
I asked some people with profound knowledge about plums about that Königin der Mirabellen. It seems it is a “lost” historical variety. No one knew where to get it. No one could tell if it actually is a Mirabelle.
Where did you get it from? I’m perplex about the fact you are able to aquire historical varieties of E.plums that are believed to be lost here. Your collection of plums is awesome by the way.
Sometimes varieties are lost because there simply are better varieties with similar characteristics. According to your description of the fruit that shouldn’t be the reason in this case.
I am interested in this variety but it seems there is no easy way to get it here.
I actually don’t know if Mirabelles and Gages are both hexaploid. For Mirabelles on wikipedia you can read its 2n=16. I don’t know if that is correct. It should be 6n=48. Other sources say its 2n=48…
Its been in the US a long time, since 1911 in the Geneva collection. Maybe it was lost in Europe. If you know the quarantine procedure you may be able to get it imported from the US.
My knowledge of genetics is not good but mirabelles always looked like Euro plums in their leaf shape and tree growth etc so I would expect they are closely related.
Had time for a quick check on Castletont this morning. Just like you and Alan said, oozes on many Castletons in the bags, no less. I do not know how those !#@&! PC got in!!!
I should not have spoken too soon. Not sure how many I could save until ripening time. So mad!!!
I haven’t had fruit off it in a long time thanks to all the PC’s and rot. My vague memory is it is a mid-season Euro plum.
This year I kept up the Surround on the Euro plums for longer, and I still have a pretty good load in spite of losing about half to PC. One other thing I did this year is a lot more diligence on picking up the falls and hopefully that will mean fewer PC in the next season.
I picked up evry fallen fruit ( I don’t have many trees so that is not hard to do.). I am not sure if that help reduce the population. I am sure it help them not to multiply.
All my fruit are bagged. So far, insects were able to get into those bags. Those Castletons do not touch the bags. I should have done Surround covepr sprays ( so many I should have’s).
So far, forecast says it will rain everyday until Sunday. Can’t spray for several days.
Ouch, all right. Of the three E plum trees, Castleton has the largest fruit. I don’t know how PC know. They have attacked Castleton and Coe’s while ignoreD many tiny mirabelles. Of about 100 Castleton (after thinning), I would be lucky if I get 20-30 fruit to eat.
@mrsg47, I have closed all the holes of the remaining bags but I am seriously consider netting the whole trees next year.
Both Mirabelles and Gages are subspecies of P. domestica:
Gages — P. domestica ssp. italica.
Mirabelles — P. domestica ssp. syriaca.
Subspecies should inter-cross easily. American Mirabelle and Geneva Mirabelle are Mirabelle x Gage crosses. Hedrick in “The Plums of New York” wrote about Reine des Mirabelles: “Cross Mirabelle x Reine Claude. Tree vigorous and productive; fruit large, yellow, dotted with red on the sunny side, juicy; good; midseason.”
I’m aware of seven Mirabelle varieties and Mirabelle x Gage crosses available in the US:
Mirabelle de Metz (aka Mirabelle, Petite Mirabelle)
Mirabelle de Nancy (aka Gross Mirabelle, Drap d’Or)
Mirabelle Parfumée de Septembre
Gras Romanesc (aka Herrenhausen Mirabelle)
Reine des Mirabelles
American Mirabelle
Geneva Mirabelle (aka Mirabelle 858, New York Mirabelle)
When I first got property in the northeast, I intended to grow everything organically. Everything went fine at first- my vegetable garden flourished and my brambles and blueberries thrived, giving me ample fruit without any synthetic intervention. My first peaches came in and a lot of the fruit was fine, although I never knew if I was going to bite into a worm. But then the other fruit started coming in and the problems started- and this was decades before the invention of Surround. I quickly had to recalculate and gradually shifted to a low spray synthetic approach to growing fruit.
Now my goal is to harvest only fruit that hasn’t been sprayed synthetically for at least a month- for apples and pears that is usually more like 3 months or more, but for nectarines on a wet year it might only be 2 weeks.
I have a lot of respect and admiration for those that succeed to produce fruit in my climate without the help of a few synthetic poisons, but for me, it would be entirely too much work and I’d probably purchase fruit from the west if I was only willing to eat organic food.
Alan,
Agreed. The first few years, life was good, no bugs, no brown rot, no leave issues, no spray. Then, reality sets in.
I think I could grow apples and pears organically if I must. Can’t do it with stone fruit, too many issues where I am. I’ve tried. Even when I know what to do to grow organically, the timing can be off because of the weather, work, family obligation, etc.
I think I still am willing to try a less chemical spray method with all my fruit trees including stone fruit. But when the crops (stone fruit) are wiped out anywhere from 70% - 100% every year, I start to think if it is worth the effort. Then , my family starts questioning my sanity
Well, I"m already certifiable, but I’m pretty sure you will find the way to more consistent harvests when you have the proper arsenal and have figured out the timing. There is generally a 5-7 day window to get an app done (when going the synth route) and rain is an over-rated deterrent. It takes a lot to erase an application, even a very recent one (at least a half inch, by my reckoning). An hour of good drying conditions and it takes 2", at least, for wash off to be serious, because the material dries first on the fruit. Once SI’s (Indar, Monterey fungus fighter) set, they can’t be washed off (same for Assail, a neonic not associated with bee killing and great for all stone fruit insect pests besides PC for which it is OK). A good sticker like Tactic is also extremely helpful to combat wash off.
that is what most sources say. But as I read that question is not conclusively clarified scientifically. A user in another forum told me some authors believe Mirabelles are to be classified as Prunus insititia var. syriaca. It seems there is still a lot ground to cover in regards of the origin of E.plums.
It is said to be a seedling by chance found in 1888 in Orleans (France). It is believed to be a cross between Green Gage and Mirabelle de Metz cause that varieties grew in the area where RdM was found in the garden of Baron Veillard.
I don’t know why it is believed to be a cross with a mirabelle. Is it its size/look only or does it have the very distinctive aroma of a mirabelle? Is the fruit freestone?
Yeah, well some of the organic interventions are very short lived anyway. Apparently Surround is not one of them once you have a real good coating down. It resists rain pretty well as trees I manage with it are still coated 3 months after the last spray.
