2017 Grafting Thread

I have these plants sitting right near the forest tree line in part shade…


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Congratulations Hambone those are known by some of the best grafters as not easy to graft at all!

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My Orange Red apricot graft from this year had done well until now. It has about foot of growth and was growing fast. Then I pinched the top off so it would branch out more. I had done that successfully with my peaches and plum. But since I pinched the top off of the apricot it stopped growing. Didn’t die but doesn’t grow either . Just sitting there. What’s up with that? What can I do to get it to start growing again? Other than saying sorry :slightly_smiling_face:

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I usually do not pinch new grafts so I don’t know the answer. All I can tell you is apricot grafts are one of those producing fruit the next year.

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Bummer! And I disturbed it and made it mad! All the fruit I could’ve had next year. Might not happen anymore :smirk:

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Don’t sweat the stoppage. If it grew like crazy this yr and had a heavy crop next yr the whole graft would probably break off. Most grafts should be pruned back to stiffen them up until the union has a chance to bulk up. A long new scion has a lot of leverage on the union.

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I sometimes pinch to slowdown growth on grafts to give it time to strengthen. Be patient, it will grow. The summer has just begun.

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So hard to do though! But I see how it’s the best for the branch long term.

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While I struck out on grapes during dormant grafting, I’m cautiously optimistic that cleft grafting green scion to green host is working. Almost 2 weeks ago (July 4th), I grafted about 10 Jupiter scions onto a Niagra (seeded) host. Most are now starting to leaf out. There is still plenty of time for them to die, but things look pretty good now.

One other thing I tried was only using parafilm to hold some of them together. Those seem to have worked as well.

Note that the field of weeds you see in the two above pics is my neighbor’s old garden- it’s been several years since they’ve used it.

So, today I did some more similar grafts. Encouraged by the initial success. I didn’t use tape on any of them (also, I just couldn’t find the tape…). If you are careful with the cuts, it almost holds itself together. I think that may be why the parafilm was enough. Here’s an example- my fingers are holding the branch, but not the graft.

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I checked persimmons at a friend’s farm yesterday. I have these two pictures of three grafts I did (bark grafts.)
I was 7 for 7 on what I did. Even the double bark grafts on one branch both took so actually more like 12 for 12.

I’m standing in a forested area so the pics aren’t so great. Dax

100-45 and another Early Jewel grafted side by side.

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Hi everybody,

This was our first year grafting, and it’s been kind of good news/not so good news of late.

The good news is that the Blue Pearmain graft I had more or less given up on has unexpectedly gotten itself going. If it keeps going, that would put us at 20/25 on our apple bench grafts, much better than I was really expecting. Credit to my dad for the knife work, and to all of your for your helpful advice!

On the not so good news front, most if not all of our apples did start to run into problems over the last month or so. Started with kind of crumply looking leaves, and then leaves getting kind of browned out along the edges, particularly on new growth, with some coming out damaged and some failing to really come out at all. I didn’t know what I was looking at, to be honest, but after following a link posted by @mamuang, I concluded that it was probably a nutrient deficiency, most likely potassium, possibly also calcium. (One hint to the latter being that it seemed to be particularly bad on our Ashmead’s Kernel, which can have issues with calcium, if I recall correctly?) So, in “gotta do something” mode, I put on some fertilizer that my wife had gotten for her potted Meyer lemon - and voila, we’ve been getting clean, green growth again. So, big thanks to Mamuang! And if anyone has suggestions about how best to deal with the nutrient issues in the future, I would welcome the suggestions.

Unfortunately, that brings me back to the bad news side of the equation: our pears. I did all kinds of dumb things with them, I’m afraid, the main and worst one being that I stored the rootstocks (OHxF 333) in pots that turned out to drain very poorly. Which was really dumb, dumb, dumb. But anyhow, we ended up with three rootstocks that just died, three other grafts that failed to take though the rootstock seems to have survived, and only four out of ten grafts that have any scion growth at all. Out of those, one, the Tyson, seems to be doing ok now, and noticeably better since the fertilizer application. One, the Magness, started out the strongest - which is not saying a whole heck of a lot - but seems to have stalled out at about four inches of vertical growth. The other two, the Harrow Sweet and the Urbanistes, have hardly put on any vertical growth at all, though there seem to have been some slight positive signs since I put on the fertilizer. In addition, while the leaves that have come out have been mostly clean and green, the growth overall has been kind of limp and floppy.

So, long story short, I screwed up the rootstocks and the pears have been paying the price. My question for you guys is whether you think the pears are likely to be an “it takes time” scenario, where they will eventually recover, apart from the three rootstocks that appear to be dead, or a “time to start over” scenario. If you do think the pears can bounce back from my bad pear parenting, is there something more I should be doing at this point to help them do so? As always, your advice is greatly appreciated.

Jamie

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Supporting pear grafts.

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And when don’t support:

This was a plum.

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Jamie,
Glad you have success. It is encouraging esp. for new grafters when things work out.

I can’t tell you about how things work with potted fruit trees. I just grafted 5 grafts on 4 OHxF 87 in pots for the first time. 4 have taken. The one that did not was Tyson!!! (but the Tyson grafted on an existing pear tree has taken well).

By the way, others whose trees suffer nutrient deficiency could benefi if you don’t mind posting the brand of the fertilizer for Lemon Myer that you use. They could look up the ingredients and decide if the product could be applicable to their trees.

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Jamie,

In my eyes, you had a very successful year. It is a numbers game, and a constant learning process. You have demonstrated dynamism and the right attitude. Your orchard has taken a huge leap forward.

I have also found pear grafts put on minimal wimpy growth, especially on young or dwarfing trees, and especially in dry summers. Neverthless, once the union is made, pear grafts often remain tenacious… and eventually grow away nicely. Rain or watering helps. Modest fert helps. And clipping away any growth that competes with your desired graft helps too. They will eventually succeed.

Keep at it, and enjoy the fun of it. By year 3 or 4, you will be amazed at what the plants can do.

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Something I’d like to share that’s already been said about persimmons is heat. I stumbled into it by pure luck. I grafted persimmons the last week of June. It has been very hot and already was hot when I grafted.

Onto the same trees (field grafting doing bark grafts) my friend stuck a lot during May. While still very good success and the fact that we both graft exactly the same each and every single time, there were losses of those he did. I was 100%.

I think everyone should wait until temps are consistently hotter for your area when doing persimmons.

I’d say where my friend got 80% which according to the group is ‘astronomical’, it’s that we are using the bark graft technique.

When I use whip and tongue or use my Fieldcraft grafting tool during May I’ve counted 75% success over a three year period. I’d shy away from cleft grafts for persimmons… I know a lot of you guys are cleft grafters or that clarkinks is a splice grafter… which is pretty uncommon on the group it’s my belief, but by all means, learn to do whip and tongue and definitely learn bark grafts as well as 3-4 flap grafts. You guys will be very safe and comfortable with a knife doing 3-4 flaps. Even on pencil thick scions and seedlings. There’s no danger to it. I’ll post photos today of a mock demonstration at this thread.

Dax

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Here’s a 3-flap graft on pencil thickness scionwood and seedling-rootstock.

It should be noted that the scion should be wrapped in parafilm or waxed before the cuts take place.

Ok here we go:



Hold the scion in your mouth to keep your hands free:

You see that bud to the left of my knife? I’m going to make my flap cut on each side of it:



Use your fingernail to bring the bark down:
there are fancy knives with a bark lifters but all you need for any thickness of bark is your fingernail to get it started:







Hold the flaps down. On large trees you bark graft you may need to put your entire hand over the seedling to press the flaps down. In this case, two fingers do the job:

I’ve put enough pressure on the flaps to keep them bent downward for the time being:



First cut on the scion:

Second cut… typically you leave a sliver of bark between each cut. Don’t be concerned if you don’t have bark between your cuts. It’s not going to make one iota of difference:

Now you’re seeing all three sides of the scion:

An additional photo with the scion turned a bit more:

Look at the diameter of your flaps and the diameter cuts on your scion. Figure out which way the flaps cover the scion, best:

Hold the flaps in place at the top and have the clothespin in your free hand ready to attach it at the top:



Start wrapping from below. You don’t use much pressure. You take your time looking at all three flaps as you gently wrap until you reach the clothespin. Go all the way to the bottom of the clothespin and then you’ll remove the cloespin:



I needed more tape to be able to cover the flaps in entirety. So I’m beginning with a new piece where I left off:

Everything is covered. I’ll remind you again the scion should have been covered in parafilm or dipped in wax already:

Now I’m going to return my tape slowly to the exact spot where the scion rested into the seedling:



I’m there! My tape is centered where the scion meets seedling. With force I’m going to wrap around this joining spot. I’ll go around at least twice. This is where sturdiness happens. While the scion will still be wobbly after finishing wrapping over this intersection tightly, it will go nowhere as it heals and stitches together:







I’m finished with the exception of going up and down the entire taped area and pinching with my fingers to squeeze on the tape to complete the work:




Last thing to do is add a bird perch that doubles as a stake to secure the growth from the scion to.



Dax

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Did you put the black tape sticky side in or sticky side out?

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I grafted my persimmons in late May, and my current count is 10/17 (59%), which is OK, but I think it was closer to 70% in the past. Maybe it was lower because I was grafting to rootstock suckers, some of which are pretty shaded. It’s also possible that a chilly spring had us behind schedule a bit. I’ll hold some wood back next year and graft a bit later.

Nice demo! I’ve never tried a 3 flap graft, but it looks like it should have a decent take rate due to the extensive contact. It does look a bit time consuming though. What situation is it best for? I think I remember hearing that it was useful for nut trees (Hickory or Pecan?).

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@clarkinks sticky side in.

@BobVance Thanks, Bob. It works really-really well late in the season for anything. Same regards to bark grafts. You get immense contact, absolutely. You’d go from say 70% of something to 95%.

Either bark grafts or 3-4 flap grafts work on the most difficult to graft trees and shrubs. You’ll see your takes go from 10% to 90% instantly. Do it anytime the bark is slipping. Early on or late. If you see those mouse ear size leaves, the bark is easily slipping.

I can do 3-4 flap grafts so fast your head would spin. Even holding a bareroot rootstock in my hands. It takes me maybe 4-5 seconds to cut the scion and it takes me all of 10-15 seconds to peel down the flaps including making the cuts for that.

I clip on the clothes pin and wrap it up and I’m sure I’m done within a minute or less.

On inch or more diameter wood I can probably do a graft in a minute and 1/2 without chitchat going on.

I get into a rhythm and it’s just whip whip whip with the knife while I’m kind of staring off into space thinking about how beautiful it is outside.

Dax

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