“COLOSS reports that between 2008 and 2012, winter losses ranged from 7 to 30% with variations between
countries and between years for the same country. No clear overarching trend can be highlighted.”
The problems are bigger than NN banishment.
Imidacloprid applied as a soil drench in my greenhouse killed bumblebees for about 4-5 yrs after a single application. That’s first hand experience that I hate to fess up to but it happened via pluot, apricot, blueberry, and related nectar or pollen transmission to the insect. It probably wasn’t via figs, grapes, or other crops that bees don’t visit.
I haven’t used it outside and native bees can’t get into my greenhouse. So all I killed was the bumblebee hives I purchased each yr.
1 Like
@David / @alan, Europe banned the chemicals in 2014 I think. That report is from 2013. I looked around for some more recent Europe data but cannot find it.
I think this a very difficult question to answer because you need field and not lab studies, and field studies are hard to do. For example in 2014 they did a field study of how much neonics got to the pollen from a seed coat and found it was very low. So the lab studies could have been vastly over-dosing the bees. Fortunately there is a big field study going on in Europe now, all we need is a few years of data from that and we will know a lot more 
@scottfsmith that was the latest in depth report, it pointed out a huge list of problems not just neonics.
There are many recent stories like this about negative farm yields from the ban.
My personal philosophy is the same as all the points @Bear_with_me makes here.
But you always need to walk in another man’s moccasins.
Because of my love of irony I have to mention…
June 2014 USDA Provides $8 Million to Help Boost Declining Honey Bee Population .
May 2015 40% loss of bees this year.
Another example of successful US government spending ?
1 Like
Europe only banned their use as a seed coating.
I commend you Bear for your efforts. I don’t and can’t do honeybees but I raise Masons and encourage other pollinators as well. Gaia’s Garden by Toby Hemenway is a nice book especially for us in the PNW to learn about small scale permaculture. I think registering as a wildlife habitat is important in that it informs and encourages others to participate as well. I am experimenting with what keeps the local beneficial insects happy. At my previous home, lavender, borage, hyssop and clover seemed well loved so I will repeat those here. I am able to support ceanothus here too, yea. I have a more exposed site here which means much more sun but also wind. I have a section of dead lawn from salt water spray that might be able to serve as annual wildflowers. I have some phacelia seed so hopefully it will help too. If all else fails, I will put raised beds or planters there. My neighbors are probably mostly chemically oriented as well. I guess their weed and feed will take care of any roaming clover I may plant.
Carole
2 Likes
I think also there is a place for it Bear. In fact, I wish that place was everywhere which is why I am very hopeful for DR research. As technology in gene mapping etc moves forward, the closer we’ll all get to that becoming the reality. I am a sprayer and worse yet a heavy sprayer, but I’d love to give it up.
If I had a neighbor keeping bees I’d be super extra mindful and sensitive to the health of their bees.
I heard about this very report you posted on the radio coming home from work Wednesday night. I thought this was over with and it sounds like it might be worse than ever. I will say I saw a lot of honeybees this year, more than ever in fact, so hopefully it’s just localized.
Scott as Richard pointed out, Imidacloprid, apparently being one insecticide implicated in this issue. Isn’t it the insecticide so often used in systemic drenches etc ? I wonder being truly systemic how much of it is in the pollen? It is (or was) marketed heavily for ornamentals etc.
Also, I wonder what the prefix Imida really means? I know that Imidan for example is a completely different class than Imidacloprid, but there must be some relationship, given the prefix, right?
Here in San Diego county CA a majority of the wild bees are feral European bees, some of which are partially Africanized (and docile by recent accounts). These populations along with the native bees are doing fine and as stated above.
The report that @Bear_with_me quotes above is quoting a statistic about managed bee colonies. Certainly they are having problems – esp. in the midwest U.S. where colony boxes were situated alongside fields where dust clouds containing Imidacloprid from seed-sowing operations infiltrated the hives.
Popular news sources – in their never ending quest to provide “hot” and stressful stories to the public – have misrepresented a lot of what has transpired since. The facts about bee colony abandonment have been buried by countless over-generalized articles.
As a possible result, someone from this site sent me a disparaging email regarding my connections to the Bayer company and my pesticide business. To set the record straight:
- I have zero financial or personal ties with Bayer CropScience.
- I do not sell pesticides.
- I do not use Imidacloprid.
Mr Clint -
I have been unable to locate data on native bee census. Ditto for feral honeybees. Some observations and speculations -
In my yard, numbers were very low until I installed a wildflower meadow. They have been increasing since that time. There are some tiny bees and big bumble bees that seem to be increasing to habitat imporvement. I also have more blooming plants and trees.
I dont know how good the local native bees are at pollinating nonnative fruit trees. My plums set a lot better since I added my own beehives. But at the same time, I added other plum varieties that I hope contributed to fruit set.
I dont think orchardists would be importing vast numbers of beehives if local feral and native bees were up to the task. I think monocrops and huge, briefly blooming orchards don’t make for maintaining feral or native populations.
Locally, a year or two ago, a big box store suddenly had thousands of dead bumblebees in their parking lot. Naturally, the store PR folks said that could not be due to the store’s use of their neonic sprays on their linden trees, which at the time of the bumblebee disaster were blooming.
Quill thank you.
I also like hyssop and ceanothus. My bees love the borage and meadowfoam and ceanothus and clovers and phacelia that I planted.
I got rid of oleanders and azelias due to toxic nectar.
Research shows that grass grows better in mixed culture with clover. My neighbors water, fertilize, and pesticidize their lawns, mow them and then discard the grass clippings. I keep hoping they will think about it some more. My lawn is full of white clover. I think it’s beautiful in bloom, and is full of bees.
I don’t have a lawn. What would be the front yard, if I had one, is wooded and filled with vines. I have an enclosed area directly behind the house which has shrubbery, some perennials, a couple of peach trees, a Japanese persimmon, lots of potted plants spending their summer outdoors, grape vines on some of the fencing, and a section of fence that is a combo of Japanese honeysuckle, Virginia creeper, and poison ivy. Part of what would be a grassy area for anyone else, is covered with English ivy. There is a 4X4 veggie garden of red cabbage. The side and back backyard I consider fields. The grasses that grow in them are weed grasses mixed with native weeds which include lots of yellow clover. I would be rid of all my grass if I could. I few years ago I tried over-seeding with Dutch clover. It didn’t seem to take, but last year one patch showed up under the willow. I wouldn’t let anyone step on it. LOL This year I found another small patch far from that one. If I could, I would have the entire lawn type area be Dutch clover. I read somewhere once that clover and grass both do better when grown together. I like the clover for the bees and because it gives rabbits something besides the gardens to interest them. Also, because it is shorter and requires less cutting, feels better under the feet, and is less allergenic than grasses.
Muddy, don’t forget clover’s other distinct advantage. It is nitrogen fixing.
If this new microclover wasn’t so freakishly expensive, I’d buy some to overseed my lawn. The only problem with clover as a lawn is kids getting stung by bees when it’s in bloom and when sprayed trees are in the lawn the danger of falling overspray killing the bees.
I agree with you, clover should be in a lot more American lawns for a bunch of good reasons, some of which you mentioned (mowing).
I think it was almost always added to grass seed up until the late 50’s or early 60’s. I’ve seen lawns totally in clover on youtube that were incredibly beautiful and deep dark green.
Local pollinators don’t grab headlines like “40% losses this year”. Orchard keepers fast forward to putting in non-native bee hives for the honey, and because it’s an agri-business template. Doing some local pollinator friendly practices is very commendable, but introducing a horde of competitors that may well displace them is not.
Some different lines of study are going on. I think this guy is right on correct what is going on with the bees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAw_Zzge49c
4 Likes
Why do you think that is?
Did you know that honey bee hives are not generally kept in orchards. They are only there short term during the bloom. Large orchards create a monoculture that is not acceptable to the survival of bees of any kind. Long term they would starve if they survived the sprays of pesticides, fungicides, and herbicides needed in a commercial setting.
I gather that you believe that honey bees are not beneficial because they are not native. Our orchard trees are not native, either. All treatment of our vegetation is unnatural, from intentionally planting, to the non-native fruiting trees we grow, even composting, mulching, and organic treatments are not naturally supplied in the manner used to produce a crop. Non-native does not necessarily convert to “bad” or invasive, and does not necessarily mean that another, somewhat similar, variety is being displaced.
2 Likes
That’s one of my favorite things about clover. Some of my flower gardens still look weedy after I weed them because I leave the yellow clover growing until it gets too out of hand. Then I pull it and dig it into the soil where it is.
[quote=“Appleseed70, post:33, topic:1311”]
I think it was almost always added to grass seed up until the late 50’s or early 60’s
[/quote] So THAT is why I remember getting so many stings while going barefoot as a kid!
[quote=“Appleseed70, post:33, topic:1311”]
when it’s in bloom and when sprayed trees are in the lawn the danger of falling overspray killing the bees.
[/quote] I already pluck the blooming dandelions and spray only in calm weather in late evening when most foraging bees have headed home for the night in order to reduce chances of affecting them as much as possible. As much as I want fruit, the safety of the bees and people is my priority.
yeah…was actually here reading some more about clover. It was actually at the beginning of the 1950’s when 2,4 D was introduced that the herbicide manufacturers began advertising campaigns to convince everyone that anything other than grass in the lawn was a weed.
I spend a ridiculous amount of time on my lawn and a lot of money. I really ought to give this up.
The microclover flowers are so small they are said to be rarely tended by bees. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but clover does look nice and like you said it feels good underfoot and requires a lot less mowing.
That article has made me curious about some things. Are any particular areas of the country more prone to losses during specific seasons than other areas? The % of hives lost comes from voluntary self reporting from keepers who (the last I recall) maintain 5 or more hives. Only those who are aware of the survey and motivated to report are included.
Some keepers of a sizable number of hives will summer in Montana or the Dakotas because of the heavy amount of white honey that can be collected there, and winter the bees in places like Texas, or summer in NY state and winter down here. What states would they be tallying their loses to?
What percentage were new package style colonies, and what were established colonies?
On another note. If a person started the year with 5 hives, split them after the summer solstice to create a total of 10 hives, and had 4 of those fail before the reporting year ended, that would statistically be a 40% loss of hives. Yet, it would actually be a 20% increase in the original number. For those who raise bees for sale, that would be a major blow, but for those who were attempting to increase their own number of hives, they’d still have an increase.
How much is from losses to swarming and over-swarming? Those losses of colonies could be increasing someone else’s or the feral population.
I don’t expect answers here. These are just some of the questions the article brought to mind.