- What is the largest sized American fruit? 100-46 or Prok or another and how do these compare in size?
- What is the largest hybrid fruit size and how does the size of Jt-02, Kasandra, Rosseyanka and Nikitas Gift compare?
- How does the size of the Largest American compare to these above hybrids?
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No one answered this old question and i was curious as well … I was googling around and saw this and thought Id might as well respond on the info i seen so far.
I think the largest i seen advertised on Cliffs site (nuttrees.net) is:
Pure Americans:
Yate: 2.5"
Dollywood (D128): 2.5"
Barbra’s Blush (WS-810): 2.5"
Hybrid Persimmon:
Kasandra hybrid: 2.5" to 2.75"
Mikkusu kaki Hybrid (JT-02): 2.5 to 3.0"
his site also said these are large but not sure how much exactly:
Lehman’s Delight,
Early Jewel (H-118)
Wonderful
Prok
Elmo (A-118)
Sestronka / NB-21 Hybrid
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“Hybrid Persimmon” can refer to
- crosses between 60 and 90 chromosome D. virginiana
- crosses between D. kaki and D. virginiana
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Hybrids (Kaki x DV) are consistently larger than American persimmon in my experience. I grow 5 hybrids and 4 American persimmons. Every hybrid is larger than any American. I’ll post some photos later.
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I don’t know that I’ve ever seen someone talk about intra-specific hybrids of persimmon, much less use the phrase “hybrid persimmon” to refer to them.
Weight would have been better. Width doesn’t tell you how spherical or oblong a fruit is, or ridged and dimpled as is the case with some.
My Rosseyanka are considerably bigger than any American persimmon I’ve ever had, several times bigger.
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There’s plenty of it on this site. You’ll also find occasional use of “hybrid persimmon” referring to crosses between two northern cultivars. This latter use is also rampant among gardeners of other “heirloom” fruits, such as tomatoes.
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Hmm, if so I guess I never noticed.
But boy can I agree with you for tomatoes. With them, and most vegetables, the whole pattern is flipped, and “hybrid” almost never refers to crosses between species.
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Actually there is another thread with many pictures. I’ve forgotten where it is though …
I think i did today in a post quoting Cliff England’s persimmon seed sales.
“Prok x Szukis Hybrid Persimmon” afaik those are both merican.
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If there are 5n persimmons out there, I haven’t heard of them. It does seem like something that would be apt to happen at some point, though apparently not that anyone has noticed
That use makes sense in context of a particular cross, as when breeding or listing provenance, but not when referring to a given cultivar since by that standard all cultivars would be “hybrids”. As I understand it, the idea behind intraspecific hybrids hinges on the idea of two separate breeding lines with the “hybrid” crop being the F-1.
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The following Americans are yielding their first fruit here, so this is based on a limited sample: H63A and Barbra’s Blush are about the size (not shape) of an egg. I say this as they comfortably into an egg carton, which I use for picking. Both are roughly 2" long and 1" wide. Dollywood is larger, too big to fit comfortably – roughly 2" long and 1.5" wide. Of course other growers may get somewhat different results.
My hybrid Kassandra tree is on its 3rd decent crop, so I’m more confident here. It’s roughly the same size as the smaller Americans. The main difference is that the Americans can to be slightly flat whereas Kassandra is more round. I don’t have a sample here to measure but I’m guessing 1.5" in both directions. I’ll try to measure actual fruit later.
My hybrid JT-02 graft is producing its first big crop. The fruit are larger than any Americans, intermediate between American and PCNA kaki. And the shape is similar to PCNA kaki. Again I’m guessing 2.25" long by 1.75" wide. Again I’ll try to measure later.
The size of a hybrid probably depends a lot on the size of the kaki parent. The parent of Kassandra is Great Wall; the parent of JT-02 is Taishu.
Richard – Just to clarify, how do you use the term in your catalogue of hybrid persimmons available in the U.S.?