What charts won’t tell you is that the farther north you go the shorter the gap between early and late flowering varieties. Even in my zone 6, I don’t worry that much about blooming times except with the few varieties that flower exceptionally late- mainly because they make it hard for me to consolidate my 2 insecticide sprays- covering all species and varieties in the orchard with the same 2 sprays. .
Liberty made a fine tree for me, and started bearing before several other varieties on semi-dwarf root.
My problem with Liberty was I didn’t like eating it off the tree…was not a pick and eat apple, and got ripe early enough it wouldn’t keep without cold storage…and I never had time to bake a pie. And the wife at the time wasn’t into volunteering to cook anything complicated like a pie.
I’ll have to visit a farm market or something and find out what the fuss is about Goldrush I suppose.
I’m taking your advice and asking Cummins to add a Crimson Crisp on g.202 to the order. I’ll be tasting both this and Gold Rush blind, but it seems like a risk worth taking. Down the road I can always, as you suggested, use the Crimson Crisp as a mother for a few other varieties. It’ll be nice to be able to, for example, graft a little McIntosh scion onto the tree someday. Same goes for some of the unusual (to me) varieties discussed here. Thanks.
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After obsessively reading here for months I think I’ve finally come up with a pretty solid plan.
I already have Goldrush on g.202 on order and will stick with that. From what I’ve read here, Goldrush isn’t too vigorous and I should expect it to top out at around M9 size.
I’ve actually never had a good Golden Delicious until the other day when we went to a PYO farm nearby. There was some russeting on some of the apples, so it’s probably the same strain that this PYO farm has been growing for decades. It was the first time I think I’ve ever found a sweet apple to be exceptional (exceptional Honeycrisps I’ve eaten had acid to balance out the sugar). I did some quick research and settled on Hoople’s Antique Gold, a GD sport that is supposed to be crisper and have more intense flavor. I’m thinking this (rather than Crimson Crisp, which is what I’d ordered for this purpose) would be a good one to order a slightly larger tree that can serve as a “mother” tree, one I could graft several varieties to over time. Southmeadow Fruit Gardens uses M.7, MM.106, and MM.111 for their “semi-dwarf” trees. I can graft Ashmead’s Kernal, Spitz, and any other interesting varieties onto this.
This leaves me with what to do about my existing orders for the Crimson Crisp and Honeycrsip at Adams and Cummins. I could ask to simply cancel the orders, but this is also a great excuse to just get some interesting trees. Adams’ inventory from September showed plenty of Suncrisp on Bud 9, and Cummins shows Rubinette on B.9, G.11, G.41, and some non-dwarf root stocks as well. I could just put two dwarf trees in a spot to the side of the house that gets good sun from the southeast and some afternoon shade from the house. I already have the OK to rip out the existing hedges around the house so there should be about 15 feet of space between the foundation and the property line. I’m thinking this is probably enough space for dwarf-sized trees. I just hope it’s still a worthwhile place to plant, even with the partial shade. This would probably be one of the easier spots to convince my wife to let me plant an extra tree in.
This would actually make my initial apple planting match @scottfsmith’s top 4 apple cultivars. It should also give me a continuous apple crop over a ~6 week period once these trees come into full production.
Here is my 2 cents. I am in Michigan zone 6a. I have about 20 apple trees.
- You said you grew up on Macs, so if you like them I would suggest taking a look at Snow (fameuse). Snow is a parent of McIntosh. Snow is far better than Mac to me and I really love them. Another benefit of snow is that they hang on the tree really well. I usually start picking a few around Sep 15. I still have lots on the tree that are good and its Oct 16
- Rubinette is the best flavored apple in the world hands down (my opinion and that of many others)
I like MM111 for my rootstock and all my trees are on it. Somewhat difficult to keep my trees a manageable size but all my trees are healthy.
Thanks
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I didn’t mention this, but my neighbor who I am very good friends with planted Macoun and Braeburn last year. I was thinking that Macoun might satisfy Mac cravings. If I recall correctly, Scott noted that Fameuse/Snow gets a lot of rot for him but that he still holds it in very high regard for its flavor. Looking at this chart, I see Fameuse should ripen before the others. Maybe I can fit a third dwarf over on the side of the house?
What size do you keep your trees trimmed down to? I’m on a small lot, less than half an acre.
Hello,
- I don’t find Macoun to be anything like Macintosh
- Snow and Fameuse are the same apple.
- At my location, snow does not seem to be susceptible to brown rot or really any fungus. Snow seems to do better than most of my other varieties in terms of disease. Snow does seem to attract more PC than my other trees though.
- Snows flesh is the most beautiful of any apple I have every examined.
- You asked about snow ripening. Here in zone 6a, I started eating mine on about sep 15 and I am still picking them today
- Like I said, all of my trees are mm111. I try to keep them pruned so I do not need a ladder to pick any apples. I guess I keep them under 10 feet.
Thanks
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I may need to find some Rubinette apples to taste. I do not have any orchards around me that grow that variety, unfortunately.
If you find yourself near Ann Arbor MI in the next few weeks, you can taste some of mine.
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IMO, Macoun is a Macintosh type, as is Cortlandt. They are closely related with Macintosh being a parent of both others. They all share the same flesh color, aroma and density and the problem of short-lived crunch- even in refrigeration.
However, people who love Macouns don’t necessarily like Macintosh, probably because they are sweeter and have this amazing crunch that lasts a few weeks off the tree- so maybe we are just defining the apples by different criterion. A problem with Macouns is they are a bird pecking magnet, as are Cortlandts.
I feel Snow is mediocre and only belongs in orchards with a very large selection of varieties. Never known anyone to rave about their taste.
I’ve never eaten Rubinette, but I’m pretty sure when I do it won’t push aside all other apples to declare it the world’s best- how does it taste out of a couple months storage? Anyway, my favorite apples tend to be tart and the only really good apples I’ve picked off trees I manage this dismally wet year are Spitz. I think Goldrush will also have enough brix to be good based on samples I made yesterday.
If you are going to evaluate apples from orchards nearby, you will probably be swayed by apples that happen to do well in an extremely wet year. Come to think of it, I’ve eaten some good old strain Yellow Delicious as well, so it seems to also fall into that category.
I’m hoping I don’t see another growing season this wet in my lifetime, but we are always most influenced by the most recent season.
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OrangePippen says Rubinette is only good for 1 to 2 months in storage, but that it represents Cox’s flavor better than any of its children. Suncrisp is supposed to be a much better storage apple.
Here’s the description from Cummins, credited to OrangePippen but I didn’t see this when looking at OP.
“So, a moderately attractive small apple that is difficult to grow … why do we think it is so good? Well, very simply, this apple has a superb flavour. Regardless of the contribution from Golden Delicious, there is no doubt that Rubinette is a Cox-style apple through and through. It is intense and honeyed, with echoes of pear-drops, simultaneously sweet and sharp. Of all the Cox offspring, Rubinette surely gets closest to having that elusive greatness. Interestingly, although the addition of the sweetness of Golden Delicious might be expected to make Rubinette sweeter than Cox, somehow this has not happened, and if anything Rubinette is slightly sharper than Cox - but the sweetness from the Golden Delicious gives a richness to the sharpness. We have speculated that perhaps it is the rich influence of the parent of Golden Delicious - Grimes Golden - that has somehow been carried over into Rubinette. Whatever the cause, the balance of sweet and sharp in Rubinette is probably the best of any apple variety. MUCH MORE TOLERANT OF HOT CONTINENTAL SUMMERS IN THE U.S. THAN COX.”
Of course, this is all subjective. Some might like the acid to dominate the apple.
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Joe, one thing you need to watch out for is getting too many Golden Delicious (and Cox) related apples. At some point I noticed that nearly all my favorites are GD relatives, and many are also Cox relatives. There is a reason why, these are both great apples that breed well. But it narrows the flavors if thats all you have.
The only problem with Rubinette is it is not a great keeper. I’m not sure why Cummins states its hard to grow, its pretty easy for me.
I don’t have a strong opinion on Snow, it never produced enough for me to have an opinion. Those types of apples tend to rot badly for me. Akane is another example of that type, awesome taste but massive rot. The least rotting of the Mac types for me is Worcester Pearmain, I still have that one. Its also early which can be an advantage if you have several apples.
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Aren’t they all, in a way, different?
Rubinette is said to inherit flavor from Cox, and Rubinette and Suncrisp are said to have sweet/acid balance. GoldRush is on the acidic side until it mellows out in storage. Golden Delicious/Hooples is just sweet and aromatic. I’ll definitely grafting other varieties onto the Hooples down the road.
Another one I was considering, to extend the season, was a dwarf Pixie Crunch.
Yes they are all different. But they are relatively closer to each other than e.g. Pixie Crunch, Snow, etc.
My current favorite non-GD non-Cox is Blenheim Orange. I haven’t heard of many other peoples experiences with that one though.
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I’ve had ample opportunity to sample Cox, and while very good is not on my top 10. I often disagree with Jim Cummin’s evaluations- not sure if is about region or palate.
He rated Long John and Fortune as superior plums and to my palate and/or location they are mediocre. Eden peach was supposed to be exceptional and I found it a rather ordinary white.
I’m not generally as enamored of GD types as you, besides Gold Rush. As far as the Cox category, Kidd’s is fine but not one that really wows most of my customers, who tend to be more impressed with Ashmead’s in its season. Same with me. I like the original better- that is Cox itself, but not enough to vouch for it given how unforgiving it can be. All its fruit rotted on my tree this season from relentless rain. It was the only apple I grow that did this.
The one that surprises me that it doesn’t get much love on this forum is Spitz. Someone wrote that although this was Thomas Jefferson’s favorite apple, he didn’t grow his own and imported them from NY. As I’ve written, I have read it does well in the western apple region, but no one else on this forum has mentioned experience with it as far as I’ve read.
The apple is as beautiful as it is delicious, and as high brix as they come. It also comes through as a reliable cropper.
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Is it an easy grower?
You and @BobVance hold it in pretty high regard. There were some comments that suggested it’s better for the more upland areas in the southern part of our region (Upstate New York/New England), such as some of the orchard sites you manage. Relative to how everything else has done due to weather, have you had any luck with Spitz at your home orchard this year?
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Yes, in my own orchard one up in Pine Planes and one in Westchester. This is a pretty good span of microclimates. In Pine planes most other varieties were prematurely defoliated with terrible fruit, even ones like Baldwin. Williams Pride up there was horrid.
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This is my experience, too, in a very different environment. I got a really good, clean crop this year with minimal attention. Storage has so far not been an issue, as we (and our friends) just eat them up.
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Excellent reply! I agree with your evaluation of the apples. Except Rubinette, I’ve not tasted one to comment on them. Everything else , spot on.
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Change of plans, again. Just updated my Cummins order, again. My apples are now GoldRush on g.202, Rubinette on g.11, Spitzenburg Esopus on g.935, and Suncrisp on G.41. I’ll get Hooples Antique Gold and maybe Ashmaed’s from another source, probably Southmeadow Fruit Gardens. I’ll just aim to grow all of the apples up to about 12 feet and (if I can manage it) looking good. Tino from Cummins says these rootstock selections should all achieve this.
I have a little plot sketched out on graph paper, I can fit the two pear trees I had intended to put on the other side of the house into the area of the back yard my wife approved fruit trees on. One pear is Potomac on OHxF 87, the other is Harrow Sweet on Pyro 2-33. I marked this down as spacing 12 feet apart between the trees. 10 feet below these two trees I’d start the dwarf apples. These would be various rootstocks, managed at 12 feet tall, planted 8 feet apart. I have penciled in 10 feet between the rows here to maximize potential expansion space but I’m not sure if that’s too close. The rough “plan” is now to just get 6 apple trees. Either Ashmead’s or something else for tree #6. 6 apple trees should be plenty for any backyard orchard.