Best persimmons for Z6B Northeast

Yes, I have not tasted Coffee Cake but understand it ripens well here. The texture of a pollinated chocolate is like mush and in no way resembles chocolate flavor, so we do not allow pollination, and I am working each year to graft on more desirable varieties.

Hi Eric,
Very useful information. Could you show some pics of your earliest favs as they ripen?
Thanks
Dennis

Not my test, found somewhere: taste test revealed pollinated version might taste better but the seeds took up most of the fruit so un-pollinated version rated bettercoffeecake_orig

I am curious, does Coffee cake have both male and female blossoms? If not what variety is pollinating it for you?

Coffee cake doesn’t make male flowers. Chocolate , Maru and Zenji Maru male male flowers. There’s probably others but these are the most common.

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On the contrary, Coffeecake does make male flowers, but not in copious amounts. Here are some clusters from my own tree.


It has been used in Japan as a pollen parent in their persimmon breeding programs.

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I want to buy 2 more persimmon trees to plant in a space that will be protected by suntuff panels during the winter - presumably turning my z6a into at least a 6b or 7a. Jt-02 and Nikita’s Gift have survived my winters but nothing else. (I actually have a tiny Chocolate Persimmon planted against a stone wall that will be in it’s 3rd year here if it’s still alive this spring but it doesn’t seem to put on much height year to year.) I’m looking for a non astringent variety with great taste. What should I plant? Maybe take that little Chocolate and put it inside this area and then add one more?

You know the saying, “Beggars can’t be choosers”? :slight_smile:

You’d be lucky to have ANY non-astringent Kaki survive in Z6B or Z7A. I planted Ichi Ki Kei Jiro as a variety that seems late to emerge from dormancy (which can be key) and seems somewhat cold hardy. Last year, all three trees were very nearly killed by two night at -5 F and -7 F. And many people would argue that no non-astringent Kaki has great taste.

Using tricks to warm the trees in winter / spring might have the unintended bad consequence of pushing them out of dormancy early, just in time to be killed by a cold spell. Warmth in winter is definitely a very mixed bag.

In any case, you probably want the earliest ripener you can find. I suppose that means Izu or Soshu, if you can ever find it. Both are supposed to taste good, though Izu has a reputation for low vigor. There are some Korean names that are supposedly somewhat cold-hardy but I couldn’t vouch for great taste. Inevitably there are tradeoffs.

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Maureen,
I am in a quest for non-astringent persimmon varieties for zone 6a, too, but it is a pipe dream at this point.

If you grow them in the tunnel, you may have a better chance. @jrd51 knows a lot more than me about non-astringent persimmon varieties that might work in our marginal zone.

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Ive been considering trying a kaki or two in the high tunnel. It looks like Saijo is quite early. A couple of sources list Eureka as early but Im not sure if that true. I dont know what growing in the tunnel will be like. I DO know that its worth a shot and I definitely don’t need any more container plants!

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@hobilus – FWIW, I have Saijo both in the ground and in a pot. These are two trees that I started ~3 years ago, grafting Saijo scions to DV rootstock. During winter, I’ve protected the in-ground tree just like figs, and so far it has survived – but it hasn’t fruited. Meanwhile I’ve stored the potted tree in the garage, also like my figs. Last summer it set a few fruit and ripened one. I picked it on October 31, finished it on the kitchen counter in 5 days. It was delicious.

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OK, - then what is your best tasting variety so far? Do you have Izu or Sochu? I do have a Chocolate that’s survived 3 years (very small though), near a stone wall. I may move that into the tunnel.

I do have a Chocolate that’s survived 3 years (very small though), near a stone wall. I may move that into the tunnel.

It needs cross pollination and Coffee Cake is often mentioned as a partner.

If you can keep Chocolate alive, you have a chance for non-astringent persimmons.

I hope @PharmerDrewee will chime in. He has a lot of non-astringent kaki. If you grow them in a green house, Andrew may be able to give you some suggestions.

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I also have American Dawn which is alive and made it through the winter - just checked on it but can’t see Chocolate - too much snow.

I grow Eureka in zone 7B North Carolina. The fruit is high quality and large for a kaki, but not early. My earliest kakis are Inchon and Miss Kim. Both have much smaller fruit than Eureka. Miss Kim has been more productive for me, but I like the fruit quality of Inchon better. My Inchon is also a younger tree, so it should become more productive as it ages.

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That’s beautiful. Looks delicious!

Maureen – I have had Ichi Ki Kei Jiro since 2015, here in Z7A. It has done very well overall, but as I noted all three trees very nearly died last winter – recall the early Feb nights at -5 and -7 F here. IKKJ has a reputation for breaking dormancy late, which seems important. It ripens here in late October, when it is still firm but edible; if you want it soft, you need to keep it for 2-3 weeks indoors.

Subsequently I decided to grow most of my Kaki trees in pots. Among PCNA (inherently non-astringent) varieties, I have Cardinal, purchased last year; supposedly that’s a Korean variety named ‘Jo Choo.’ I also have Taishu, purchased last year; it is difficult to find and frankly my tree arrived in very bad shape. I hope it grows well now. I have ordered Izu for delivery this year. Finally, I have traded for scions of Matsumotowase Fuyu, which I will graft in May. But to be clear, I don’t think any of these varieties can survive here in the ground.

Among PVNA varieties, which lose astringency if seeded, I have Giboshi, Coffee Cake, and Chocolate. Giboshi has been in the ground for a few years and I hope for the first crop this year. The others are potted. My hope is that Giboshi will continue to survive here.

In full disclosure, I also have some PCAs (astringent), which can be tougher. I have Sheng and Saijo in the ground and Miss Kim grafted to an established American tree. Both have survived here 2-3 winters. Also Saijo in a pot.

The best-tasting persimmon that I have grown is probably Saijo (see above). I have two trees, both young, one in a pot, one in the ground. The potted tree produced a single fruit last year. However, I would not expect Saijo to consistently survive in the ground with temperatures below 0 F.

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We are going to be working on Z5 non astringents. Give it at least 5-10 years. Until then, protecting existing varieties is the option. I’ve heard a few people mention IKKJ. I have scion from an unknown growing in Pittsburgh since around 2008 if you are interested in trialing it.

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I’m confused why more people don’t grow the Gora hybrids (Goverla and Roman Kosh) since the reports make them seem to be very close to a kaki in terms of taste, but they should give another 5 to 10 degrees of hardiness. Plus they are as big or even bigger than many kaki. They are also reported to be fairly easy to remove the astringency from with co2 or alcohol, so could be consumed like non astringent types with little effort.

For many who are in 6B, they seem like a very good option.

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