I had about twenty Honeycrisp for my first crop last year, this year it seems loaded so this is good to know to be a little moe aggressive on thinning them. It is right next to my Macoun so I would hate too see both of them naked next year.
I had the same feeling when reading this, I think Iāve read it 4 times now! Just a ton of information.
After reading it my first thoughts were that Iām just not up to it, if HC is as temperamental as all that. And I wished Iād have known some of this before these past 9 years, etc. Just thoughts drifting to the negative. But on further reflection, a lot of the issues written about would only impact commercial growers concerned with getting them to market. After I sifted through the things that probably wonāt be a real issue for me, the downside of this great tasting apple didnāt seem nearly as depressing as at first blush.
Iāve got the room, so Iāll keep mine in the mix. Itās a great shaped tree, I love its structure. The limb angles are right absent having to coax in any way, and when it gives me fruit I know (even if only occasionallyā¦) Iāll be impressed.
After reading the article I have a greater respect for the wise fruit growers who are actually able to do all the things necessary to manage this variety to market.
The HC link is a good indication about how difficult that apple is to grow. My experience buying this apple says even the commercial growers deserve an F on growing HC.
My own HC has proven impossible. Not a single bloom in 6 yrs. Right now Iām done thinning Golden and HC still doesnāt have a single leaf or even a bud swelling. Itās very unhappy with the lack of chilling here.
On the subject of thinning/biennial bloom of apples I have great return bloom because about 2/3 of the fruit clusters are thinned off completely while fruit is still small. The 1/3 of clusters with fruit are thinned to one apple. Since the clusters set 3-5 fruit each that means Iām thinning off roughly 90+% of fruit. Thatās how I get return bloom. In this climate Iām able to leave a high density of flower clusters, ie more smaller wood. That may be the real secret to what works for me.
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Here are some 100% biennial apples for me - one year massive the next year nothing, year after year:
Kidds Orange Red
Reine des Reinettes
Bonne Hotture
Here are some pretty strongly biennial ones
GoldRush
Freyburg
Mutsu
Pomme Gris
And, here are some super-regular ones that never go biennial
Abbondanza
Rambour dāHiver
Rubinette
Keener Seeding
Golden Russet
Many more I havenāt really seen the clear pattern on, it takes quite a few years of the mature tree to see its long-term habits.
There are many issues that affect the ability of trees to bear annually, but most of what you hear about is the variety and adequate thinning early enough (within 3-4 weeks of petal fall).
Some other things that come into play are 1. the region you grow- the shorter the season, the more difficult it is for a tree to get adequate energy for annual cropping. 2. The presence of shade- another factor affecting a trees ability to gather adequate energy. 3. Drought or other stress that affects the efficient functioning of the canopy, including insects like tent caterpillars. 4. excessive vigor, which can cast too much shade on spur leaves.
There are probably many other things that have an affect, such as areas that get too hot for much of summer for apple trees to keep their stomata open (Surround is said to help here).
Last year I did spring pruning at thinning time to stop unuseful annual shoots from blocking light from spur leaves on some trees that have been biennial, probably because of too much afternoon shade. After a heavy crop last year they managed to send out lots of blossoms this one- unfortunately 17 degrees at half inch green destroyed most of them.
The one variety that produced few flowers even after a decent job of thinning and spring pruning last season was Goldrush. I believe keeping apples on the tree until late fall is quite the energy suck. Iām told the tree is more reliably annual down south.
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Alan I agree with everything you said. I could certainly see length of season being a factor on something like Goldrush that hangs so late. But what Iāve seen still comes back mostly to thinning. My neighbors trees 20ft from mine werenāt thinned enough, if at all, last yr. He got about a 5% bloom this yr. My trees right across the fence bloomed massively this yr just like always and I left a big crop last yr. But I thinned early and apparently didnāt leave too many.
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If you like HCā¦try Pazazz if you get a chanceā¦ Very similarā¦ I went back and forth over what i thought was better. Both produce monster apples. These were both from a local orchard in MN.
I donāt see anything on HC this year, but its still young. Iāve got what i think is a HC seedling flowering for the first timeā¦weāll see what becomes of that.
One other thing about thinning- higher brix fruit probably need relatively more space- putting more water in the fruit isnāt much āworkā but sugar is another issue. Iāve never seen that mentioned but anecdotally it seems to apply and certainly is logical.
Thats not always true. My Rubinette I usually donāt thin enough; it produces some of my sweetest apples yet comes back the next year with as big a bloom as the previous year.
No, of course it isnāt always true, it is just a factor to consider about thinning.
Fuji and Goldrush are both late, high brix apples and they are both biennial and I think high brix may play a part, as does whether an apple is early or late, which also doesnāt in itself determine reliability.
However, annual bearing is energy related and I have been given reason to believe it isnāt just about energy levels in mid-spring, even though that is the main thing that thinning helps.
Of course, I may be just muddying the waters with excess speculation, but two of the most reliable apples here are Macintosh and Gala which ripen in Sept Almost every apple I know that ripens by mid-Sept bears annually, often without even thinning it. Go over the list, Ginger Gold, Zestar, Williams Pride, Yellow Transparentā¦
HC is a bit of an exception, but it is huge and high brix for a relatively early apple.
Well, for stand alone apple trees (not grafted on), I am a proud owner of biennial varieties because I have HC, Gold Rush, Williamās Pride, Golden Russet and Fuji.
My only hope is that they do not all go biennial in the same year 
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Warm,
Is Pazazz a club apple?
[quote=āmamuang, post:31, topic:5560ā]
Well, for stand alone apple trees (not grafted on), I am a proud owner of biennial varieties because I have HC, Gold Rush, Williamās Pride, Golden Russet and Fuji.
My only hope is that they do not all go biennial in the same year
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If one thins enough early enough then I donāt think any of those apples will go biennial. That may be more thinning than most people can stand and apparently is. But at some point any apple should be annual if thinned enough. Furthermore I think youāll get the same total amount of apples over 10 yrs and quality will probably be better.
Williamās pride is not a biennial variety for me.
Fruitnut,
Your advice is duly noted. Canāt apply it this year, though.
I am still quite miffed with HC. It was loaded with fruit spurs last year. I was aware of this issue and removed many clusters of flowers, while they were blooming!!!. I remembered by the time I was done, the orchard floor under the tree was covered with white petals.
Then, I went back and thinned the remaining fruitlets, tons of them off at pinkie finger size. That looked like that was not enough as it goes biennial on me this year. Bummer!!
This conversation worries me. I have a 5 foot tall 4in1 Asian Pear. I thinned all clusters from 5-6 to 1 or 2. That still leaves around 10-15 per variety and a grand total of around 50. Should I thin it further? The fruits are quarter to ping pong ball sized right now.
Maybe? It was locally developed but i know they planted 10ās of thousands of trees in a few different spots around here.
I had a couple bags of it last fall.
I went out this afternoon and thinned about 80% of my apples, even on the trees where the spent flowers are still attached. It was only very slightly emotionally difficult. If I wind up losing whatās left to one thing after another, Iām going to blame it on this thread. 
Really, I donāt have any difficulty thinning because the pics people posted last year of broken and severely damaged branches from carrying too heavy loads never stopped haunting me.
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There must be some aspect of growing big apples on biennial bearing. I know Iāve read it could be seed production and formation of giberrelins that suppresses the next years flower development. However, if it was solely seed production, wouldnāt this also be true for ornamental crabs with <3/4" fruit? Lots of those are loaded with fruit every year, but they probably have about as many seeds or more seeds than a much bigger apple such as honeycrisp.
Mine are super loaded with bloom mamuangā¦they just opened their first blooms just a few days ago. It has however, in the past, self-aborted, so weāll see if it holds out. Iāll get a photo tomorrow if the rain allows me. I should mention that what I call biennial, does not mean NO fruit, I simply mean a comparatively light crop. Mine has fruited every single year including itās very first in the ground here. Nothing I did, I just got lucky, took care of it, and imo M106 did the rest.
I couldnāt possibly agree more mamauang. Top working a HC would be akin to turning a brand new Cadillac into a dune buggy or farm vehicle imo.
I personally do not find HC significantly more problematic than any other apple I grow. I really think that the difficulty is more related to commercial growing, packing, storing etc as both IJ and the article says. I DO think it would be very difficult to successfully grow (though certainly possible) using even mildly organic methods in most climates.
Iām so freaking glad someone mentioned this. I think rootstock is an important issue. The article eludes to this as well as many other factors. The reported performance of those grown way outside of their comfortable range should be dismissed. Then there is thinning, fertilization, calcium, soil types and a whole host of other very meaningful factors. Again, as the article and commercial growers elude to.
One thing I want to mention, so far at least, Goldrush has never shown, for me, any signs of biennial tendenciesā¦none. Iām not saying that it doesnāt have that trait, but just to emphasize Alanās point that there are a lot of variables in play here. My one tree is again loaded with bloom this year. I thin crazy heavy, but Alan and others have said not enough and theyāre probably right. But it goes onā¦I also let it fruit fairly heavily itās first yearā¦it didnāt seem to care.
Both HC and GR 2nd year grafts onto seed grown stock have a decent amount of bloom this year and Iām expecting some fruit. Looks promising.
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