Sure. I would like true to name Cherokee and Comanche.
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Can be propagated by root cuttings. Which is how i shared a few awhile back.
Jim goes the really really long way around of propagating cuttings then having to make dormant in his fridges…
They were a super nice plant here with boatloads of fruit..however they ripen during the wettest time of year for me and fruit was bland on all years but one with a dry spring.
The bees go crazy over the flowers which gives nice looking fruit here.
Would probably be a much nicer crop for me if i grew under plastic and could control the moisture.. but i have moved on.
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The problem with this is that there’s a built in assumption that there’s one “ideal” flavor. Even if Newberry is an improved version of its descendants it doesn’t necessarily mean said “improvements” are all flavor related and even if it were it doesn’t mean everyone prefers it vs its parents. It could be argued that a modern 8 speed dual clutch automatic is the “ultimate” driving experience but that’s not going to change the fact that I prefer to drive a manual.
It’s like when people ask “so what’s the best blueberry variety?” when there’s multiple different dimensions to a variety that might make it “best” for that particular person or area. For instance, there is no variety with huge berries, maximum wild flavor, high yield, high vigor, and high resistance to disease. There’s always a tradeoff somewhere and breeders know this.
It’s possible to become too refined.
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Spur blight? That’s my working assumption. But I’ve never been good with disease ID, I’ve no eye for it may just add we’ll be anthracnose or leaf spot.
Thoughts?
I’ve seen this issue pop up a few times before with different degrees of severity, figured I’d finally ask the pros.
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I’m not sure I’m following what Jim’s method of propagation is. Can you explain it further?
Smaller pencil sized cane cuttings. Cuttings taken before the transition to dormancy to have the most stored energy. Those that are rooted then have to go into dormancy. They then break dormancy by removal from his fridge and are then at the mercy of timing and weather and the new owners care. Many many variables from cutting to planting.
Root cuttings are simple. Just place them where you want new plants.
Womack will sell you root cuttings of the blackberries they sell or the plants that they grew from root cuttings for more money.
Not many people understand nor want to dig or do root cuttings so its not really a discussion.. even though its probably the best way to propagate.
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I have a WNW facing wall on the side of my yard on a 20 degree slope (which gets steeper as you go up) that’s been unplanted for quite some time. I had always planned to basically fill it with natives but I noticed after doing some DLI measurements that it gets quite a bit of light from noon all the way to sundown. So I think to myself, “Hey what’s stopping me from putting in some t-posts here, terracing in some small planter boxes, and planting some blackberries here? Shouldn’t be too hard right?” Well let’s just say while it’s probably not the most difficult thing I’ve ever done, it certainly wasn’t easy, and basically took me all weekend. Dirt has the uncanny ability to look small but then start easily filling buckets once you start digging into it and doing the work on a slope is particularly taxing. Plus I’m not 20 years old anymore.
On Friday I did some measurements and drove T-posts knowing I wanted a 12’ run because I was going to cram 3 plants in there, but didn’t want to go too far up on the slope as it starts getting 30 degree+ steep. 3 plants with basically 4’ of space each is definitely “let’s do it live!” territory - and I’m even planting them with 3 ft spacing, but I figured, “well 4 feet isn’t that much different than 5 feet, what could go wrong?” I’m sure I’ll find out later.
On Saturday I cut and assembled all the planter boxes using 2x8 construction heart redwood, using a simple 18” face and 15” sides so I’d end up with 16x16” interior, hacksawed 3’ steel angle into 1.5’ pieces for stakes, mixed up a bunch of soil using half the dirt I dug out and half of my own “blackberry mix” (basically potting soil + sandy loam + some organic material) and did 1 terrace. Originally I wanted to start from the top and go down knowing it’d be much easier to work without worrying what was behind me, but decided to do the “easy” one first:
Basically got one plant (Cascade) in the ground and was like “wow, this is a ton of work, I’ll do the rest tomorrow.”
On Sunday (today), I decided to start from the top. Top one had a bit more of an aggressive slope, maybe 22-25 degrees, which made work take longer, and for some reason it took me forever to level the box with lots of back and forth and micro-excavation but eventually I got it in there. Moved on to the middle one, taking care not to step on the plant I just planted yesterday (should’ve started from the top!), not as bad as the top, but still work. Eventually got it done, got all my stuff off the hill, replaced all the mulch I moved out of the way, and cleaned up:
Or if you prefer a more dramatic angle that makes it look like I’m planting on a 45 degree slope:
I have moisture sensors in all of these and so far drainage looks to be fine although the top one had a bit more clay than the others. I dug down a bitt beyond the 8” depth of the box, so each plant probably has a foot or so of the soil mix. Hoping drainage is not too good as I don’t want to be going up there every day just to water. The way I plan to approach the trellising is that the outer plants get 3’ on the outside and 1’ inside while the middle one gets 2’ on each side. I’ll obviously prune aggressively if needed and keep the cane count lower so it doesn’t turn into a mess (if I can help it).
The 3 plants from top to bottom are Kotata, Obsidian, and Cascade. I’m also going to be planting some native chaparral currant (‘Montara Rose’) on the left side towards the top. Maybe that’ll keep the birds distracted.
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Thank you for this. Question, if you do your own root cuttings, you take them right before dormancy and move/plant them directly before winter? Or do you store yours over winter as well to plant in early spring?
I’ve only moved around raspberry suckers, but same could be done with raspberries?
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I tried this! @krismoriah posted about it somewhere else and I went ahead and did it this spring.
I tried raspberry (primocane bearing that I think are Autumn Britten), Newberry and Clark’s blackberry. All of them worked to some degree. The Newberry in particular seems to really enjoy being propagated by root cutting. Not only did the root cuttings work, the plant I took them from decided all the little bits of root I’d left needed their own plants.
I dug the roots up on a warmish day in late Feb when I was going a bit stir crazy.
I put some in trays inside in a humid tent. That mostly did not work but may have worked if I had used a different media or not so humid. I put one Newberry root in a houseplant pot in my living room and that one grew.
I put some directly in the ground in a different spot (the raspberry and Newberry grew), I only did one blackberry and it didn’t grow but I didn’t try a bunch of them - so it could work. I didn’t see them come up until I had completely forgotten about them months later, so I have no idea how long it took for them to send up shoots or anything.
I then put a few in my fridge with my scions. I forgot about them until June when I planted them and enough of them grew that I can’t tell you how many didn’t.
I have tried rooting blackberry with no success (have made that work with raspberry). This was way more successful for the blackberry.
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Anybody ever grown or have a source for Pacific? Not “Pacific Blackberry” aka “California Blackberry” aka Rubus ursinus but the 1935 variety that’s a sibling to Cascade. It’s probably lost to history or impossible to find but figured I’d ask…
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Why do you want Pacific over Cascade? For the tartness/berry firmness? While we’re on the topic, do we think Raintree’s Cascade is true to type?
No particular reason other than curiosity. I’ll let you know in a year how Cascade turns out as I have one growing now. One other thing to note is that they actually have two “Cascades”, one is the cultivar under discussion and the other is just Rubus ursinus: Cascade Trailing Blackberry - Raintree Nursery
I guess every state/region on the west coast has to have their own spin (e.g. California/Pacific/Douglas/Cascade blackberry/dewberry - all the same [but don’t confuse Douglas with Douglass which is a different patented cultivar]).
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The OGW Obsidian I planted in the ground a week ago doesn’t appear to have a significant leaf wrinkling issue. There’s hints of it near the end of the longest cane but it’s not anything that would bother me (yet).
The best of reasons! There must be a reason Pacific/Cascade/and siblings were used in so many crosses. Looking forward to hearing more about Raintree’s Cascade next year – thank you!