My goal when breeding fruit of any kind is to improve it for the area in which i grow it with anything better than we previously had. I do not do anything unless God wills for that to happen. The ultimate goal is always the best case scenario. Do I expect the next sugar belle? I think i expect anything God gives me only. My expectations are 0. My efforts are 100% always.
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I agree, Clem-yuz 2-2 is already a great hybrid, and it has very favorable genetics for future crosses. I also really like that it would be building off of the work of another dedicated hardy citrus breeder, Dr. John R. Brown, who is responsible for the Ten Degree Tangerine we know and love today.
There’s a quote of his which I really like: ““By way of solemn charge, amateur citrus breeders, I would say: Ignore not F2 and F3 open-pollinated progeny in great numbers, plant in hedgerows wherever feasible, and keep looking. Forget not the resinous-modifying effects of Yuzu and Kumquat blood, nor the seedlessness potential of Meiwa x Nagami including Nagami hybrids out of Thomasville. Remember the lack of peel bitterness in Bloomsweet, Yuzu and the 'quats, to put into grapefruit. Consider the other “edible” citrandarins, citrangors, and especially the monoembryonic ones on which to use Morton pollen. With them I foresee worthy lines to pursue for another generation of hardy citrus breeding.”
I agree! I think if we’re able to create complex crosses with a variety of citrus which have different mechanisms for cold hardiness we might also be able to overcome some of the genetic hurdles relating to fruit quality. Crosses with a high degree of “true” citrus genetics lose hardiness too quickly.
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Y’all are mostly discussing details so far over my head that it’s spinning.
30+ yrs ago, my friend the late Bonnie Childers, aka The Satsuma King of Texas, found a random hybrid seedling among a batch of Flying Dragon seedlings, which, iirc, he called a Flying Dragon citrangequat, as he thought the pollen parent was likely a kumquat. IDK if anyone has this in their collection - maybe Phil Sauber(@Mr.Texas) - or could comment about whether it would be worthy of inclusion as one potential source of ‘edible’ how brid genetics
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This sounds like Dragon Lime! No one quite knew what the other parent was but I have a single clone growing now. I haven’t had the chance to try a properly good fruit off of it, but I’m holding out since people have told me good things.
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Yes. When ripe I find Kabosu tastes like perfectly sweetened lemonade. I prefer it over NZ Lemonade actually for that. I picked it in January for that flavor though… you might be able to pick earlier with similar results but I was not at that property to monitor.
I vaguely some of the others that I’d picked in early November as limes (actually very good limes), sat in a plastic bag for a month or so and they sweetened up a bit too, but my memory is a bit foggy on those now.. this is what they looked like at time of picking for a lime flavor.
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I’ve been on the waiting list for Prague , and Carolina lime. I just moved up to the top of the list after patiently waiting. If you are familiar with them you know why I have been waiting. It will be interesting to see how their seedlings do in a colder zone. For now as I said many times they will be in the greenhouse.
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Zone 5 or 6 and 7a citrus might be closer than we think. @a_Vivaldi had nice things to say about this nursery @woodlanders . Sure we know it’s zone stretching but wouldn’t you try it ?
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I did some numbers crunching and I calculated that for a cross between 2 50% trifoliate hybrids have a 0.195% percent chance of having all 18 of the chromosomes of trifoliate origin. Which would make out of kumins 3,000 zygotic C-35 seedlings approximately only 6 would have the full degree of trifoliate hardiness (that’s if you ignored gene hopping and if all all of the chromosome base pairs all have genes related to cold hardiness)
Also if you backcrossed a 50% trifoliate hybrid to trifoliate orange, there is 7.5% of the seedlings would have all 18 of the chromosomes of trifoliate origin, so 38 times higher chance than a 50% trifoliate self pollination.
These numbers ignore a lot though.
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You might like this thread speaking of number crunching Growing coffee in cold climates without a greenhouse (trees forum at permies)
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I don’t see very much to do with number crunching on that thread, is it the right thread (it still pertains to cold hardiness talk).
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Sorry the links in it are dead. That is the exact problem I was talking about the other day. The point of the research was it is purely a matter of planting enough of anything with the right genetic diversity to develop colder varities.
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Here’s an interesting update relating to Poncirus Plus and its use in breeding for zone 6/7. I managed to find a single hybrid seedling this year hiding under the canopy of our taller true-to-type seedlings! It has broader leaves, pronounced middle leaflets, and the leaves do not taste strongly of resin.
I immediately emailed Kumin about this and he replied that he has about twenty 5star Citrumelo trees in proximity, which I suspect is the male parent in this cross. This would make this a 75% trifoliate hybrid, one of the first of its kind as far as I know.
If it turned out to be exactly 50/50 between both of its parents, it should have -5 to -10°F hardiness, good vigor and recovery from Winter lows, and fruit that are larger than Poncirus Plus. The fruit should also have little-to-no resin depending on whether or not the resin-less trait got passed down.
I am looking to graft this seedling onto a larger rootstock immediately to trial in our perimeter orchard. I cannot test its absolute hardiness in our zone, so I will try to propagate several more clones over the next year to send to zone 6 and 7 growers for hardiness testing.
Edit: It appears this may in fact be a Conestoga 058 cross. All the more exciting!
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If you need us to grow some out let us know we can test them in a cold 6a climate here that is similar to 5b. A poncirus + with a recessive sweet citrus gene if it inherited it is incredibly positive.
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That would be great, and if I find any other seedlings with promise that would not be worth me growing here, I will offer them up to those interested.
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You just have to be in the mood to grow lots of rootstock, 95 Rootstocks and 5 crosses, not too bad.
The good news is that pollination is easy.
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I frequently scan for feral populations of Trifoliate Orange, in hopes we might find something unique one day. Today I found one that produces surprisingly juicy fruit with a decent sour citrus cocktail taste. It does contain resin but it is on the lower end from what I’ve tried. Most other qualities are typical of this species. I will be processing fruit for juice and seeds which will be listed on our website.
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Reminds me that I have several trifoliate seedlings in a container that need to be potted up to at least gallon pots.
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