Think they will gmo oranges for cold climates very soon. My suspicion is they already have them. Years ago when i was finishing some of my college in the 90s they were growing strawberries in the snow. Literally red strawberries in snow drifts. Noone would have had the nerve to eat them but i know they grew them. Have never saw much of what i studied available outside college classrooms. The idea people dont learn anything at colleges makes me laugh a little bit. The classes i took i learned alot. Think the strawberries ripening in the snow might be documented in this book but i cant be sure now its been awhile Biology: Life on Earth by Audesirk, Gerald Hardback Book The Fast Free Shipping 9780133681505 | eBay
The point im trying to make is we studied and learned about firefly dna being added to plants where they glowed among other things. Breeding cold hardy citrus is an easy thing. That was the 90s this is 2023. The reason those strawberries are not being picked from the snow drifts now is because they knew that dna could not be contained to the domestic strawberry. Imagine a world where no plant sleeps. Im not sure people realize at all where science is but it is far beyond making cold hardy citrus. They could take some trifoliata dna and mix it with domestic oranges and gmo those cold hardy citrus in no time. My guess is there is alot of money that does not want that done. The labs we did most people would not even imagine and that was one class of years of classes. Imagine if that was my major. In some of my classes we studied diseases etc. and even grew things in the labs related to plants and diseases among other things. Im aware currently of them crossing spinach with citrus to combat citrus greening disease. They have had the technology awhile now but its not perfect yet. https://www.growingproduce.com/citrus/insect-disease-update/is-a-gmo-citrus-tree-the-silver-bullet-for-hlb/
"The protein from spinach belongs to a large class of antimicrobial proteins known as defensins,ā Mirkov says. āDefensins are ubiquitous in nature and are in plants, insects, and animals (including humans). They bind to the cell wall of the HLB bacterium and make holes in the cell wall, and the bacteria breaks apart and dies.ā
They did not stop at spinach they also used other dna
Nice! Im glad you got sone to try! If it doesnāt work out let me know next year.
Good plan! I plan to mostly grow in my future greenhouse, but also some of these hardy ones in a makeshift semi-protection.
Allegedly is a good way to put it, since it is a mystery. And i doubt no one knows for sure. I sure dont, but I see a lot of similarities in leaf pattern variation with Thomasville.
I also hope to add Ten Degree Tangerine it also sounds worth growing above most other hardy hybrids, it and Prague are my top two choices.
Whatever it be, every report i have is that it is hardy, and hasnt been killed in any report, 5F to 0F, havenāt ever yet heard of an established one dyinng so it may take more cold than that.
And no Trifolate in the fruit at all. Not in fruit or skin.
Identical fruit and skin to Mandarin or Satsuma.
Thats all we know from the reports. The guesses of hybrid or chimera or radiated seeds or radiated scion, those are just guesses, as it was created or mutated, under USSR and its History or Info is lost.
Thanks for that. Now I have a new obsession.I wonder if you know where I can source some of this for grafting. I suppose itās too optimistic to think someone has a whole plant for sale. I familiar with what a chimera is from studying it ever so briefly in college. What I donāt know is how chimerism affects reproduction in plants. I suppose there could be lots of different possible outcomes. Do you have any idea how it impacts the seeds of this specimen? I watched a video from a guy who grows these in Virginia, I believe zone 8a. He called it his āCharlie Brown treeā citrus variety because itās so scraggly and has limited yields of fruit. I suppose that might make it a poor commercial choice. But us backyard gardeners donāt mind thatās for sure. Iām also sure this is going to become ever more widespread in the coming years. The one aspect I wonder about is the ripening. I straddle the line between a zone 9a and 8b in relatively northern locations above 40 degrees latitude. That means the cold sets in pretty quickly in the fall. The guy growing them in Virginia briefly mentioned the ripening could be a problem in the northern zones. I still think itās worth giving it a shot. Iām imagining a covered area to keep the light frost off the fruit and add a few degrees to the microclimate around the growing area. Based on your handle I can see you are in a zone 6b. What kind of successes have you had with citrus? I take it you use a greenhouse exclusively for the colder months?
Mr Stan check with him, check by phone or email soon and get in line.
He usually sells some in March or april, and then some summer grafts he did that spring. And maybe dome fall plants too.
He is in 8a in SC, and told me Prague, and Ten Degree, and Carolina Lime, all three survived thaf rare 8F freeze that killed all his Satsumas, but that Prague is the most hardy of the three.
Also, yes he told me that his Prague ripen mid october through November.
Give it a try, it is worth a shot. You could cover it with a cotton frost blanket in November to keep the fruit from freezingā¦
Yes. I used to live in 8b and grow Satsumas unprotected.
And since you are in 8b-9a you ought to also try some earlier ripening Satsumas, like Louisiana Early, Early St Ann, Armstrong. In 8b-9a line, they should do fine if you cover the first 4 years below 20F. And once bigger they can take a bit more cold. And ripen a bit earlier, say late Sept . And Miho is one of the best, similarly early, and claimed to be a tad more cold tolerance.
If it is indeed the same, VI 396 budwood is currently available from CCPP. Interestingly this says that VI number is no longer active even though itās currently available:
That listing also includes photos of the fruit and leaves.
Thanks for the tips. So far the only outdoors āhardyā citrus that I like the taste of are the yuzu, sudachi and ichandrin. All those poncirus hybrids will grow too but Iām not keen on the trifolate taste. I also grow a prolific meyer lemon outside, but keep it under a covered patio with polycarbonate roof. Itās very happy and has been there many years without needing any lightbulbs. Low temps are almost never severe. I have only dropped below 20 once since I bought this place, 18 for a couple of hours one winter morning 3 years ago. Typically my coldest nights are no lower than say 22 to 25 and thatās only on maybe 5 nights each winter. We only drop below freezing on average 30 nights annually. And Iām about 40 miles from the Pacific so we donāt get wild temperature swings like in the Gulf Coast. I recently learned thatās quite a problem down that way as the citrus donāt like going from temps in the 70ās to temps in the single digits over a matter of 24 hours. I donāt think people like it either. Haha
So you think those varieties you mentioned would do well here? Would you cover them for any freezing nights for the first couple winters? What about raising them in a greenhouse the first two winters? Or do I want them exposed to the cold from the start to harden off? And what do you think about the owari? Thatās a popular variety for sale at any nursery from Santa Rosa to Seattle. I suppose people must have luck with it because they keep selling it. Iāve always avoided it because of the possibility for temps in the teens. Does the owari compare favorably to the Louisiana early or the others you mentioned?
That definitely appears to be the same thing. Awesome! What are you grafting onto? Flying dragon?
Unfortunately all of last fallās fruit on the flying dragon down here were seedless. I couldnāt believe it. I donāt know whatās going on and canāt wait to see if they are seedless again this fall.
Iāll probably end up buying some from One Green World which aināt cheap. I considered buying some poncirus seeds online, but reviews said very poor germination rates and several
places want $2 a seed. Do you know of any reputable citrus seed vendors?
Plus, Iām unsure if itās preferable to graft onto the flying dragon cultivar or the standard variant. Have you encountered info about that? One guy told me you donāt want the flying dragon because itās too slow. Have no idea why he thinks that or if itās true. But it was enough to make me a little ambivalent.
Yes. Im from 8b Louisiana, and my trees saw as low as 15F unprotected. With some top damage. I dont think my brothers Miho got any damage.
Meyer Lemon gets much more damage than any of these Louisiana Satsumas. I had 2 and I think theyve both died by now, but the Satsumas are still thriving unprotected. It rarely gets below 20F.
Yes the gulf gets much bigger swings which are more likely to cause danage especially in early spring when the new growth is trying to push. Your steady temps should make them stay semi-dormant and safer better able to handle temps of 20F or colder.
Owari is much later ripening than those i mentioned. Owari is a November ripener, whereas those I mentioned are Late September to mid October, and Brown Select is a mid to late October.
I recommend the earlier ripeners for you: Louisiana Early, Early St Ann, Armstrong, Miho. Those are ideal for ripening early.
All tend to be similar on cold hardiness.
Cover young plants if its getting below 25F , and once a few years old they get more hardy, abd a 7ft tall bush can take 20F no problem if it is semi-dormant and ive seen them take 17 to 15F several times with little damage when semi-dormant and the right conditions, but ive seen those teens temps severely damage them too especially limbs less than 1/2" inch diameter.
One will go on a trifoliate seedling I have in the ground outside, the others will go on potted citrus in the greenhouse (one on a lemon seedling and maybe another one on an unknown citrus seedling that has done well in the greenhouse).
I dont know why Owari is so popular, except that its an older name.
I had two trees of them for years, i never liked their fruit as well as Armstrong or Brown Select. For me, their skin was thicker, and they had less juice, than Armstrong, plus Armstrong was over a month earlier. Brown Select was Earlier too.
Louisiana Early and Early St Ann are newer improvements released from Louisiana State University because they are better. But they havent caught on yet. Miho is also a newer release and seems to be catching on down south. Those 3 are the first three Iād try, and i plan to put them in my greenhouse one day, though I didnt grow them back then. My brother has a Miho that hes liking.
Since I plan to build a greenhouse, i plan to use it my limited space for the best, which I believe to be Louisiana Early and Early St Ann. Though these are newer releases that i havent had yet.
My favorite of those I had, for my greenhouse, was Armstrong, being it is a shorter bush and earlier ripener, than either Brown Select or Owari. Owari was the latest ripener, and the tallest grower, of any satsuma i had.
Here is some info on LA Early:
LA Early says its a smaller tree like Armstrong, and Early St Ann is a tad bigger tree. So im thinking if I could only put one tree in my greenhouse it would be LA Early.
Second is a toss up between Armstrong and Early St Ann:
Trifoliate fruit season is fall. The seeds can be stored for at least a year in the refrigerator by drying the seeds overnight and dusting with fungicide in a zip lock bag.
Seeds stored at room temperature die. Seeds offered other than fall are likely dead.
You can buy the seeds from a reputable place in California Rootstock Seed
I once ordered a quart of swingle seeds from them.
I just ordered the citsuma budwood from them. Freaking shipping is as much as the cuttings. Well now the fun part, not mucking up the graft. What type of graft are you doing? I might have to be out of town for a few days after they arrive and wonāt have time to graft until after. Do you know if citrus cuttings will last in the fridge for as long as apples or figs? I leave those in the fridge for a couple months and they remain viable.
Have you ever heard of seedless flying dragon fruit? I asked Sam Hubbard at One Green World and he hadnāt. I looked briefly online and couldnāt find any information. Iāve been wondering if a seedless flying dragon might turn out to be a good thing for breeding seedless hybrids. Itās just a passing thought. I know next to nothing about plant genetics, but itās certainly interesting to ponder.
Very good info. Thanks! So do you have the citsuma? I just ordered the budwood from ccpp and Iām already getting nervous about mucking up the grafts. I have a citrumelo and and an owari on flying dragon rootstock so I think Iāll graft the citsuma onto those. Iāll also buy a few flying dragons rootstocks today when I pick up my barefoot apricot. I have virtually no experience grafting citrus so I need to learn the most beginner friendly method.
