My wife wants me to try a couple of pie apples, especially a Granny Smith since she’s a professional baker.
Because of the Permaculture conditions & design, I need seedling RS, but can’t find anything available.
Do any of you know of any nurseries offering these trees?
Thanks…
Seedling root stock? You can obtain Antonovka seedling roots from Burnt Ridge Nursery.
The price is a bit high but the quality good for apple trees from Trees of Antiquity in California.
(Since you are in Arizona, that would be probably better than New York or Washington trees.) They use M111 roots.
I’ve had a Granny Smith tree for 29 years, on M7, and this just may be the year I take the chainsaw to it. Been a disappointment in every category. And impossible in the no-spray orchard. OrangePippin.com or cooksinfo.com are good sources for comments on cooking and pie apples
Walden Heights used to sell at least a few varieties on seedling rootstocks. Worth checking out anyway
edited to add…I was interpreting “seedling” as ranetka, prunifolia, or baccata. Trees on antonovka should be pretty easy to find.
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As stated buy rootstock rootstock from burntridge, than learn to graft. Try Calville Blanc d’hiver, King of the Pippins, Newtown Pippin. All are wonderful cooking apples. Buying trees will give you production a year or two sooner, if that’s a concern.
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Not benchgrafts, but Fedco Trees offers most of theirs on Antonokova seedlings, and they carry Calville: https://fedcoseeds.com/trees/calville-blanc-dhiver-apple-121
They also sell rootstocks and scionwood.
Out of curiosity, why does your permaculture design require seedling rootstocks?
That’s a loaded question.
- Toughness
- Big Trees Capture & Store More Energy
- Big Roots Create A Bigger & More Vibrant Rhizosphere
- More Biomass
- Canopy Is Critical In The Desert
- More Area For Birds Of Prey
- Longer Lived
- Will Eventually Shade Out The Nitrogen Fixers Which Is How Succession Works.
- It’s All About Making The Land Better. The Fruit Is A Byproduct.
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In all seriousness your best bet is probably to visit a local nursery in the spring. 9 out of 10 apple trees there will have been grafts that we’re stuffed deep into pots and the scion rooted. Find one in bloom and you will have apples this year.
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Ok, so you’re looking for a big tree with deep roots. Granted, I only have book knowledge at this point, but from my research there are clonal rootstocks that also meet that requirement. Bud 9 118 is nearly 90% of standard size, has deep roots, and should live just as long. If you want someone with actual experience to chime in, @alan may be your best bet. The take home message, I guess, is that most seedlings will probably fit the bill, but if you consider some of the clonal rootstocks, you might have more options without much of a compromise. Or you could intentionally plant the union below ground to root the scion like @robd is talking about.
I think you will have a hard time finding a benchgraft on seedling rootstock.
M111 is only slightly dwarfing it’s usually considered to be about 85% of a full tree and has good drought tolerance when fully grown. It’s readily available and you will be able to find benchgrafts for it. So it would be a possibility. With a vigorous scion, M111 will produce a full size tree or larger.
Another option would be to plant a tree with the graft union below ground level and let the scion self root. This will give you close to a full size tree. I wouldn’t do this with a bench graft until you already have a year or two of growth on the graft. A benchgraft is rather fragile the first year.
@PermaAZ
My honest opinion is buy a bundle of 50 http://willamettenurseries.com/fruit-tree-seedlings/apples/antonovka-apple practice grafting all 50. Should cost a little over $60 and if you have to many give some away or sell them.
Ive paid that much for one tree before that i really wanted .
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I think you may have meant something else. Bud 9 is a dwarfing rootstock. Just don’t want there to be any confusion.
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Shoot, you’re right. I meant Bud 118. Thanks! I’ll fix it above too.
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Thanks for all of the suggestions. I couldn’t find a GS for my wife, so I’m going to have to find time to practice grafting. I did find and buy four other trees on domestic stock.
- Dorsett Gold
- Yellow Delicious
- Gala
- Dixie Red
They were very inexpensive which is why I bought them. I treat my plants with utter neglect so they probably won’t survive, but what the heck.
look into RI Greening. It was one of the apples that were replaced by GS. It is an old apple which means it had to be productive well before spraying was really a thing.
It is also supposed be be an excellent cooking apple…
Scott
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Hopefully I can take you up on that in the future. My site hasn’t evolved enough to get serious with apples yet. It needs more biomass to close the loop.
I love your website BTW. I actually printed out the pages about your testing many years ago.
PermAZ, I have seedling rootstocks in the ground, and a young Granny Smith that needs a little pruning. I’m in Wisconsin so will be froze up for awhile longer. But I could send you a couple rootstocks and scionwood the beginning of April for you to graft. Or I could graft them myself, make sure they take, and then send it to you this fall?
That would be awesome. Graft it and I’ll tell my wife write you a check.
We both would really appreciate it. She’ll make sure the tree is babied unlike how I treat most of the plants.
Bud 118 is good if you like anchoring big trees 
We’ve had fun with that. Two heavy rains with winds last year very severely leaned over a number of bud 118. 100% of my leaners were bud 118. No problems with 111 or antonovka. In the future, my last remaining grafted bud 118 that need planted out will be planted very deep with the collar far underground, or discarded to avoid later hassle.
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Oh, weird. That’s not an issue I’ve heard of with them before. I’m going with Bud 118 for my apple trees, but I’m in a pretty sheltered location, so hopefully it won’t be an issue.
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