Dual purpose cider/dessert apple recomendation

Just thinking out loud here, but sometimes I wonder how useful the historical range of an apple and where it grew is as useful as it seems like it should be?

I mean, it’s definitely an important piece of data to consider.

But it is pretty clear (at least to me!) the weather on the east coast has been getting significantly warmer in the past handful of years.

I remember when I was a kid in PA, summers were warm but tolerable. Now I go up there to visit in the summer and I’m like, “Wow! It’s pretty stinking hot!” And I’m coming from the South, not Northern California or anything. And the very hot weather seems like it lasts longer? Like, I seem to remember when I was a kid, there was a real scorcher here or there. But now it seems like there are a lot more, and instead of having a very hot day or two, you can have a very hot two weeks.

I don’t know, it’s always possible I’m not remembering things correctly, and I’m certainly no scientist, but it does seem like the weather has changed noticeably since I was a kid. And I just wonder if it has reached the point yet where an apple that say, grew well in an area 100 years ago may no longer grow well there.

Like I said, just a thought.

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Thanks, John. I just planted mine this year and is not in a very good location, either. Well, I’ll need to wait until it produces to see if I like the fruit.

Thank you for the suggestion. Have you grown Baldwin somewhere as warm as Northern VA? From what I have read it is an excellent apple, but a more northern type. Given the warming weather I am trying to steer clear of any apples that wouldn’t be happy in the heat and humidity.

Here is a link to an old (1908) book talking about apples grown in Virginia and NC in that time. It says in part:

"Though one of the most important apples in the north, the Baldwin apple is relatively unimportant in these regions. It is widely distributed in throughout them in the older orchards, but especially in the Virginia portions. " It goes on to say that the Baldwin grows well mostly at higher elevations and in the northern portion of the Blue Ridge Mountains… but that apples from lower altitudes were often inferior.

https://books.google.com/books?id=D6QUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=baldwin+apple+piedmont+virginia&source=bl&ots=xjDGhSfNyy&sig=AZVbHPOJ-U97zjijAwvqy1Uha_k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw2dKh9PvPAhVj74MKHSMzCGcQ6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q=baldwin%20apple%20piedmont%20virginia&f=false

Has anyone had luck growing Baldwin closer to sea level in Fairfax county or similar?

I agree. We have been setting all sorts of records in the last few years. I am not about to start planting orange trees, but when looking for fruit I try to avoid anything that wouldn’t grow at least a few hundred miles south of me a hundred years ago.

If you look at the book I linked just above it certainly doesn’t describe the Newtown Pippen (listed in the book as “Yellow Pippin”) as easy.

It notes that: “The greatest possibilities of the variety can be realized only when it is grown under the best cultural conditions,” “The tree makes a slow growth and under usual methods of culture is late in coming into bearing,” and “the tree is quite subject to twig blight in comparison to many other varieties and, and bitter rot attacks the fruit very seriously in some cases.”

Ozy,

Near sea level in Virginia, you should look to @scottfsmith and @hambone for their apple recommendations.

My urban backyard is on the piedmont (Frederick, Md). So far, I have only dared try Roxbury Russet and Sweet Sixteen. Neither have fruited for me yet.

All my other apples are planted at my mountain property at approx 1,600 feet above sea level.

Interesting find, thanks. I didn’t diagnose which rot I had but it was probably bitter rot. Most years I only lose a fraction of the fruit, but its not the kind of apple to have if you are only growing a couple varieties.

I am not growing Baldwin due to similar things I read about issues in the south. While some of those stories are inaccurate I have found them more reliable than not - both Fameuse/Snow and Blue Pearmain are known as difficult in the south and the Distillery Lane folks recently confirmed that from first-hand experience.

Thanks, that is part of why I am looking at some more southern-type apples including the Arkansas Black and the Black Twig.

Do you have problems with fire blight at all? I don’t see it often on ornamental crabs around here (IA) nor does it seem to be taking out all the backyard trees that are so prevalent. I’ve seen plenty of old Bartlett pear trees out there. And I don’t think most people know too much about it around here.

@Ozymandias A friend has a big old Arkansas Black here in Md that’s riddled with fire blight but it soldiers on, unphased. It “tolerates” blight, all the while potentially infecting the rest of his orchard. So you may see it listed as “resistant”. Big difference between resisting getting the disease and resisting dying from it.

Black Limbertwig, Paducah, Monark, Liberty, Freedom (v. good apple flying under radar), Williams Pride, Enterprise, Virginia Beauty, Hooples Antique Gold, Brushy Mountain Limbertwig, Keener Seedling, Goldrush- you won’t be sorry. They’re not immune to blight but as far as I know they likely won’t break your heart down the road.

I had a gala 10 yrs ago get fireblight that spread down to the bigger branches but I did some heavy pruning and it recovered. Also saw a single strike on Wickson last year but it pruned out and saw nothing this year. CAR has always been the worst problem for disease and so much of that is because there are cedars in every small bit of open ground. Even in the wettest years and the last three have been, it’s uncommon to see it.
Baldwin might not work in coastal Atlantic, but it does very well for me in cent. Ia.

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For what it is worth… here is what I just planted:

Enterprise
Liberty
Goldrush
Arkansas Black
Black Twig
Hooples Antique Gold

I guess I will have an update in a few years… it is too bad it takes so long.

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Ozymandias,
Those are fantastic choices of apples to plant! Everything I’ve read about them was pretty good. I added a PI 588838 nova easy gro apple this year to scions https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail.aspx?1003626 I requested which is a good one in my understanding in the class of Enterprise and Liberty. I don’t see other people growing it but I’m not sure why. This article http://extension.oregonstate.edu/gardening/plant-disease-resistant-apple-varieties is worth reading about disease resistant apples but I don’t believe everything it says 100% . I chose that apple due to “Excellent scab and cedar apple rust resistance; moderate mildew and fire blight resistance” as noted in the article from the ARS GRIN website listed above.