Favorite Blackberry (with thorns) ? or without

@steveb4 … logan canes in training…

I swapped out my trellis a few weeks back and have a cattle panel in place now.

I have 4 logan pcanes which i took to the left side of that panel and now i am running them up the first 4 upright tracks on the leftside.

As they reach the top… will turn them to the right and send them along the top four horizontal tracks. That panel is 12 ft long so they will be 18 ft long or so when they reach the right side. I will just let them run off the end there and tip root.

That will leave the bottom 4 horizontal tracks for next years primocanes to run… while these are fruiting.

That is the plan… will see how that works out.

Well, I know there are voles around, but a few plots away from mine at the community garden someone else has blackberries and they are staying in their zone.

So maybe voles can make it worse, but it does seem like Ponca has a tendency to “stray”. When I went to water today, I noticed 3 Ponca primocanes popping up several feet into my neighbor’s plot, so I stepped in and yanked them out quickly. Hopefully, it doesn’t become an issue, but I had gone with blackberries there instead of raspberries just because I thought they’d be more contained.

I wonder how deep I’d need to have some type of root barrier to keep mine from getting into her plot?

Do your blackberries say on the east coast generally thrive without you watering them, once established, except in droughts?

@hambone … i mulch my blackberries, raspberries, logans, and do very little watering of them or any fruit trees…

Occasionally yes… but i have no irrigation system in place. I can water some stuff with 150 ft of hose, or by hand with a 2 gal water tank.

My hose does reach my flat garden (veggie garden) i will water tomatoes and watermelons and greens… okra seems to thrive on hot and dry.

Most of the time when i plant something new in the spring… it gets watered at planting and that is it. I mulch most everything good with wood chips or pine bark mulch. That helps.

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The lack of Zone consistency is crazy. I just bought a Natchez from a respectable nursery (plant grown by WNI in OH). It is labeled as zone 4, Berries Unlimited list zone 5 and Starks Bros zone 6. I’m newer to growing berries, is there a drastic difference in stock or is it a measurement issue?

Also added Lawton and pulled out ponca and triple crown.

How old are your poncas? Mine were sold as one year old dormant plants. They are only on their second year in ground here but have completely stayed put. Concerns me a little if they are going to get that agressive in spreading.

Mine are in their third year. Last year they stayed put, but this year they seem to wander.

Why do you delete most of your posts? They all look like good posts to me


Waste of most folks time. And my own really. If i read someones post and it helps me learn or is interesting i hit the like which shows the poster that others are thankful. If i post something and it gets zero likes it was obviously a waste of my time and the persons that read it… so i just delete.

I asked a fairly simple question a couple days ago… no answer. 1 like. I will delete it. I will just figure it out myself.


should leave it there. sometimes it takes awhile for folks to see and comment on it.


That, and postings that are just informational and on-topic are useful to non-posting readers researching the subject, even if not generating “likes”.

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This plant continues to amaze me. Vigor is outstanding. I thought it would be semi-erect but it is erect in its sophomore year. Laterals are pushing hard and thick and they have laterals already. Production is going to be insane. Leaves are as big as my hand already. Much larger than most other varieties.


this the sweet giant?

lol no… my sweet giant arrived as a ‘hot mess’. One of the worst looking plants that i have ever bought…and it was expensive.

This is ‘Victory’ its from Eastern Europe. I talked about it some last year and offered some free plants to trial but nobody wanted any… thats ok though…i dont blame them. I am learning it myself as i go. Its the nicest thornless blackberry plant i have ever seen. No issues with any kind of diseases and its so vigorous. I pruned the bejeezus out of it and it still is overflowing into my rows with laterals. It may break my wires…we will see.

I have seen pics of the berries but this will be my first year seeing them… thats going to happen shortly it seems.

From what i was told it will pump berries from early June and keep going for a long while. Making it an early and mid producer. The bees love it.


well i apologize as i must have missed the post. any chance you could tip root one for me? ill gladly buy it and pay the shipping. any berry cultivar developed from that region, from my experience, are leaps and bounds better than most of the ones developed here.

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I think i have 10 or so that are exploding with growth in pots from last Fall.

Yeah i have tried just about every cultivar that exists in the US. This one is something special so far. It was bred to be a commercial production plant but the breeder died. It doesnt really exist other than my rows and a few places that got to trial it in the EU. I have no idea of the parentage but its alot more vigorous and healthy than Triple Crown. Lets see some berries before you commit but i got u covered on a plant if u want.

I have about 10 more varieties from him but they are babies right now.

I will take pics of Amethyst next week… it will do very well in your cold. Its a BEAST. It is absolutely loaded with fruit and the canes are massive on the primocanes. The bees are loving it more than any other plant so far. I guess its all the clusters and massive amounts of flowers. Glencoe is a wimp compared to it…at least mine is so far.

I got Wyoming purple going too…it will love your cold as well.

Lots more to come. I finally got Newberry going, Sylvan, Siskiyou and …KOTATA. Kotata was THE most complicated and hardest to get plant i have ever had the blessing to get.

FYI anyone reading this that wants Newberry you can PM me. As far as i know im the only guy on the planet that has them for sale…or will going forward. It was a nightmare and waiting game to get. I likely wont sell them until Fall…its just too danged hot to risk killing them. Any plants not sold here will be on Ebay or Etsy or somewhere. I had to buy 200 so im sitting on them and babying them for now.

If there is any cultivar you want or have been looking for you can also PM me…i probably have it. I only fool with a few varieties of Red Rasps, but i have every variety of black rasp, purple rasp and every variety of blackberry that has ever existed i think. I dont fool with or sell anything that is patented.


@krismoriah … in the next year or two… we are going to sell our big home and 8 or 10 acres… and build another just up the road from where we live now… on land we own.

This spring i planted 11 fruit trees at the new home location… pears, apples, mulberry, plums, persimmons. Also got elderberries started. A good start.

Next spring… i plan to get some berries going there… blackberries blueberries raspberries.

I will be looking foward to your report on those blackberries. Think i am going to try some Caddo at the new place and transplant a few crowns off illini, obsidian, logans.

I have about figured out that black raspberries (including my mystery black and OTB) just do not do well here long term… first floricanes seem to do well… but each year after that they go down hill and produce few good berries. They produce a lot of canes and take up a lot of space in the bed… but very little quality fruit. It may just be too hot humid here for them.

My Herritage Reds per cane produce 10x the fruit. I do love the blacks… very good… but this is the last year for my MB and OTB. Taking them out.


Something to think about-

I talked to Gary Pense Sr. who has grown every berry that exists on the east coast and sold them for a living. He said that he went to a guys house and he had Allen Black Rasps…and said that they were the best black raspberries hes ever had (never grown them or heard of them until then). I did a little reading and years ago the guys on houzz also praised them. Seems that Allen is one of the few named varieties that is improved and is a USDA release. Also note that Mr Pense’s review is from Arkansas which is a similar climate to you I think. So i bought from both Krieger’s and also from Stark Bros. Kriegers had the nicest plants and best roots…they all lived and took off well. Stark Bros. was about 25 percent survival. It looks like they keep them in a cooler and most are dead when they arrive. Some lived though. So if i were you i would give this one a try…if you havent already.

As for Caddo…thats up to you but if you have room for a few more i would wait for ‘Celestial’. It is supposedly one of the most heat tolerant varieties and has a good blend of east coast and west coast traits…meaning that it should be sweeter. Also to note that it has the vigor and production of Chester which hasnt been reached since Triple Crown tried. I think it will be a great one.

You are welcome to a free plant or two of ‘Victory’ since you were kind enough to send me root cuttings of Illini… plus you are an honest reviewer… i welcome more praise and information on this variety if you want to grow it. Lets wait and see the berries and you can decide. As i said earlier it should have berries ready here mid-june and from what i understand it may put on berries up until Sept/Oct. This is going to be a challenge because the Primocanes are so vigorous… and not removing spent canes until Nov is going to make for a very crowded house. I honestly think they are going to break my trellis so i am planning on adding another wire for safety. This is only their 2nd year so im not sure what to do other than prune the bejezzus out of them. I think in a better climate these would have berries the first week of June. More info coming in the next weeks.


I’m interested to hear your review of ‘Victory’ as well. I have/had Prime-Ark Freedom, Apache, Triple Crown, Kiowa, Navaho, Osage, Sweetie Pie, Ouachita, and Chickasaw. I say “had” because some of them died to the ground this year and I don’t know which. Complete fail on labeling… I know PAF because of primocane fruiting and think I know which one is Triple Crown (probably my best tasting and most consistent producer) but have no clue on the others. I just propagate the ones that taste good and grow well :slight_smile:

I thought I wanted Ponca, the marketing hype is strong… I’m not quite so interested after hearing of it dying for so many folks this year though.

We have so many wild black raspberries around here, I’d love to know how many I’ve mowed down. I did for the heck of it purchase Black Jewel a few years ago and to me it’s taste is pretty much identical to the wild ones (which we very much like). The berries are larger though so I have been trying to propagate more of those.

We also have tons of wineberry which are the most intense cane berries I have ever eaten. Also as an experiment in a large order I put together (to Pense I think, 5 or more years ago) I purchased Latham Red. Similar to “red raspberries” from the grocery store to my taste, bland. I might find them enjoyable if it wasn’t for the intensity of wild wineberries…

Anyway, love hearing about your berry collection and am glad you’re doing so!


My first real picking of Ponca beyond sampling a few here and there. Wife and daughters agree they are excellent. The bowl was full a half hour ago and a few more disappear every time someone walks by.

Like most blackberries though, they need that last bit of ripening to get fully sweet.