Has anyone grown Kasandra, UKR 15-19, V. Derevyanko, Chuchupaka or Sosnovskaya in zone 5b? Can they actually handle the lows in the colder parts of the country?
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I am doing hybrid persimmons trial here in Z5 in Omaha, Nebraska for the last 15 years or so. I got about 10 plus varieties on trial here. JT-02 cold hardy to -26F. Sosnoskya to -18F so far. Kasandra to -17F so far. Kujinaja to -18F so far, Nikita #4 x open pollination to -18F so far, Kujinaja X open pollination to -18F so far. KYT Kentucky Thanksgiving to -18F so far, Prok X 400-5 to -18 F so far. H-118 X 400-5 to -18F so far. H-120 x 400-5 to -18F so far. Nikita #4 died a -18F, Derevyanko died -18F, NB-02 died -18F, Nikitaās Gift died at -18F. Hunterās Dream died at -18F, Whopper died -18F. UKR series died at -18F. Chuchupacka supposed to handle the cold to -22F but my graft got destroyed by the deer.
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WOW, thank you so much for this data, this is exactly what I was looking for! Out of curiosity, the Nikita #4 that died, was it very thin or was it an older tree?
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That data from Tony is gold. Iāve been eyeing Kasandra for a while but havenāt pulled the trigger because zone 5b winters here can be unpredictable. The fact that Derevyanko died at -18F is useful to know, saves me from that one at least. Did the ones that survived have any dieback on new growth or did they come through clean?
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@tonyOmahaz5 ā Great data!
@Rawnutphobic ā The Ukrainians published data on performance of hybrids during two serious cold spells that brought temperatures to -26.7 C (-16 F) in January 2006 and -22.3 C (-8 F) in February 2012. See especially Table 4. Sosnivāska, Universalna, Chuchupaka showed no damage. Bozhyi Dar showed minor damage in the colder episode.
For Sosnivāska, they report data from amateur gardeners showing hardiness to -30 C (-22 F).
The original article is published in Ukrainian. Hereās a translation from ChatGPT.
persimmon_winter_hardiness_translation.pdf (202.0 KB)
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Nikita #4 was 3 yrs old and 7 feet tall.
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The only tip died back was the Kujinaja X open first year seedling. I think it will handle the cold better once its size up a bit.
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And climates with fluctuating winter temps like like Kansas are worse on hybrids and kaki than getting cold and staying that way all winter. Late spring freeze has killed hybrids that hadnāt even budded out, like āRosseyankaā.
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Btw, all my hybrid persimmons, the grafted union were buried 8 inches below ground for insurance. If the cold killed the top of the tree to the ground level then the portion above the union below the ground will respout to the same variety so I donāt have to regraft them again. That is how you grow hybrid persimmons in colder zone like Z5.. I got a few more on trial like The real Dar Sofivivky, Universal, and Kassandra x open pollination . This is their first year in ground. I got high hope for these guys in my Z5. I just have to wait for the cold comes to town to test them.
Tony
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I got an old Nikitiaās Gift here. Planted it about ā09. It has been down near -10F. Some winter pruning by nature here or there. Do you think -20F would kill the entire tree or just cause die back for a mature tree?
It has only been to -20F once here from what I recall.
I think -20F is pretty cold even for a large Nikitaās Gift. If the weatherman predicted that your weather will get down to -20F then should build a mound of dirt around the base of the tree to protect a few feet above the ground for resprout of the same variety for just in case the whole tree die.
Tony
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In the paper linked above, the Ukrainians report moderate to severe damage (3 to 7 on a 10-point scale) at ~-17 F. In another article they report āfrost resistance is to -24-25 Cā (-11 to -13 F).
The children of Nikitaās Gift that were produced by crosses of NG x DV do better.
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Journey may be one of the more cold hardy hybrids.. per this post by snowflake.
I have Journey.. but no fruit yetā¦ and itās highly doubtful I will ever put itās cold hardiness to test here in zone 7b.
TNHunter
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The āJourneyā that Iām aware of is almost entirely DV, maybe 1/8 Kaki. It that your Journey? And are other characteristics such as size, taste consistent with DV phenotype?
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How many years have you been growing journey for? I just grafted one last year, the vanilla taste sounds really enticing.
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@jrd51 @Adamsmasherz ā¦ I got my Journey scion from Englands Orchardā¦ I think it is in year 4 now.
A picture from this spring.
It is a very pretty treeā¦ longer more pointy red tinted leaves.
The taste of vanilla.. got me too.
I have one wild I collect from that has the taste of vanilla.. persimonillaā¦. but it is not there every yearā¦ sometimes it is just barely noticable and sometimes it is very noticable and absolutely delicious.
I hope when it does fruit that taste of vanilla is consistently there and noticable.
It is also reported by Cliff to be the first to ripen in his orchardā¦ In August.
it may ripen late July for me.
TNHunter
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Hereās an interesting list of very cold Hardy persimmon options.
D. Virginiana is at -35ā¦-37 Ā°, one of the hardiest species. The fruits are large (up to 300 g), sweet, well stored. The tree grows quickly, does not require a pollinator, but needs annual shaping pruning.
Russyanka is a -30Ā° bend, fully adapted to the conditions of the middle band. Self-fertile, begins to bear fruit in the 3rd or 4th year. The fruits are medium-sized (120-140 g), sweet, with a slight astringency. They ripen in November.
Meader to -30 Ā°C is a self-fertile variety of Virgin origin. The fruits are large (up to 250 g), without tartness, with dense flesh and a light rum flavor. They ripen by October and do not crumble. It requires mulching of the trunk circle and protection from wind in the early years.
Roman Kosh (Gora Roman Kosh) prolonged frosts up to -23ā¦-25 Ā°C, shortāterm frosts up to -27 Ā°C Interspecific hybrid (eastern and Virgin persimmon). Self-fertile, high-yielding (60-70 kg per tree). The fruits are large (200-250 g), sweet with honey notes. Ripen in early October, stored until January.
Nikitskaya Borodaya is a -35Ā°C self-fertile variety. The fruits are large, at a late stage of maturation they turn dark red, the flesh may acquire a chocolate tint. The yield is up to 100 kg per tree.
John Ric to -34 Ā°C. Self-fertile early-ripening variety. The fruits are medium-sized (about 100 g), sweet, with juicy reddish flesh.
Bozhiy Dar to -28 Ā° is a young variety. The fruits are dark orange, slightly flattened, weighing about 180 g.
I donāt think so.
Unfortunately, in Russia the standard for nurseries publishing cold hardy numbers is with protection like burlap bagging and plastic layers and then snow cover, so thatās not what we expect at all, I donāt know how youād to that for an American Persimmon though.
I have grafted Journey up here mostly because it of its early ripening. It went through -22 this winter and a week with sub-zero temperatures every day with only some die-back, about the same as Mohler, Tin Cup, Meader, H-118, ect. It was its first winter outside exposed, so the die-back was anticipated. I grafted it potted in a bucket and overwintered it in a insulated building to keep the graft from outright dieing the first season. All but a couple of my 60 or so persimmons have experienced die-back every year, including seedlings. I think this is not so much due to the extreme cold but more because of the shortness of season. It is a rare year that I see persimmon leaves turn yellow, instead of just freezing on the tree green. Journey is sending up lots of growth now for my area. It is approaching 4ā. JT-02 had a couple inches of die-back but it was buried deep under snow. Again this was not at all surprising being as it was its first year in ground. The two seemingly hardiest trees I have are two seedlings that I started from seed from TonyOmaha. They are 400-5 x H-118 and 400-5 x H-120; I donāt believe theyāve ever shown die-back. Also had a 400-05 x Lena but it got toasted this winter and never came back. The 400-05 X H-120 one is about 6ā. The 400-05 X H-118 one would have been about the same but is was snapped by extreme snow mixed with wind. I think for us northernmost growers that hybrid vigure could be a game changer. Also, some hybrids put on two growth spurts instead of one so they also size up much faster.
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