Yes, next year I am planning to graft a few branches on my JT-02 and Sosnoskya. It is a pretty good looking tree.
Tony
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The one variety that comes to mind is the persimmon variety named Zirochka. Which translates to “little star” for its shape. Below is a link to a prior discussion on this variety. Click the drop down arrow of the post below to see a picture of it. It’s fascinating for sure. It has 5 creases on the bottom, creating the “star” shape. I think this image shows the creases better: https://shop.zahradnictvolimbach.sk/image/cache/catalog/kaki/zirocka-kaki-persimmon-1060x1060h.webp
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Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I am firmly fixed on the idea that people blame it on viruses because they don’t know what’s actually causing the real problem, which then yes may produce viruses upon cell death, possibly hastening the disease.
Maybe people have talked about many plant viruses, including the first virus ever theorized, and it turned out that the disease was caused by something much more observable, not even fungus, mold, parasites, or bacteria, but insects, so embarrassing, anyway, I have a theory about KSDS (since there are no injections to be blamed, like SIDS and the other sudden deaths) that it is like the grafted oak trees that just suddenly die, not because of any disease, but because of self-pruning.
American Persimmons are self pruning, I actually guessed that from how much their shape reminded me of red oaks, and sure enough, they also have troubles when grafted. I’m pretty sure the difference here is about the genetics being different enough that it triggers a mechanism to kill the part of the tree that has “mutated”, and when that part is too large, everything dies.
Does anyone have a Persimmons Frankentrees where the trunk and scaffold are still American and the KSDS suceptible varieties have delayed graft failure but the main tree survives? Please let me know this might confirm my theory.
In any case, I think hybrid seedlings are the solution! The genetics will be more similar and they might lose the ability to self-prune. Also perhaps there’s a non-self-pruning American Persimmon which could be propagated for rootstocks?
A little more evidence that it’s likely not a virus, of course the virus would pass through the interstem and multiply itself (if the theory of self-replicating, pathogenic viruses were actually true).
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Yes, I have one large tree with grafts of 5 American varieties that are thriving. The tree also carries grafts of the hybrid JT-02 that that are apparently dying now after 5 years. Also in past years, there were multiple grafts of the Kaki variety Miss Kim that died one by one over 3 years. And there was outright rejection of grafts from the hybrid Nikita’s Gift.
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If KSDS was because of self-pruning, then wouldn’t you expect every tree that is D. kaki grafted to D. virginiana to self-prune in the same way? How would you explain cases of grafted trees that have not “self-pruned” (i.e., shown no KSDS symptoms) in decades? D. kaki trees grafted to D. virginiana rootstock at the Wye Research and Education Center in Queenstown, MD, have been growing there since 1966. I think a pathogen such as Xylella fastidiosa for which D. virginiana is an asymptomatic vector is a more plausible explanation for KSDS than self-pruning in D. virginiana. The symptoms don’t seem like graft failure to me. However, I share your hope that at least some hybrids could be more resistant to KSDS even if many seem to be as susceptible as D. kaki.
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I believe that self pruning happens for three reasons in nature, the one I mentioned: the genetics are too different from that of the rest of the tree, the growth is too to slow and it’s rejected for being stunted in favor of others or completely new growth even, and it’s recognized as being diseased by the tree and rejected.
Any of those could happen when grafting branches that are too genetically different, and since DV is seedling rootstock, we can’t predict which ones will reject the grafts and which won’t, we can just find some sort of statistical frequency.
My uncle gave me a 500 page nursery book and I looked up viruses, it clearly said that “viral infections end when the source of infection has been removed, such as ingrown Branches or roots from infected plants” and that doesn’t fit the mainstream idea that viruses self replicate in infected hosts, it clearly states that viruses are produced by certain plants and if they contact sensitive plants there are symptoms or death, and as soon as contact is removed, the “infection” stops.
I’ll find that when I’m back home.
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In 2022, I grafted Saijo to two different bare root DV seedlings. Both grafts took; both trees grew vigorously. I put one in the ground, the other in a pot. I protected the in-ground tree over the winter and it experienced zero cold damage. After 3 years, it was bigger than the potted tree.
Then in June 2025, it suddenly died. This was no mere self-pruning. Lower branches did not behave differently than upper branches. Rather, the tree’s leaves suddenly showed black veins, shriveled and fell. End of story.
Meanwhile, the potted tree remained healthy, producing a dozen tasty fruits. It remains healthy and fruitful today.
I’ve seen self-pruning. This wasn’t that. Self-pruning happens mostly in the winter. It happens selectively. This was a systemic collapse.
My best explanation is that one seedling tree was infected, whereas the others wasn’t.
But this happened on only 1 of 2 nearly identical trees with (1) equally different genetics; and (2) equally robust growth; (3) no prior evidence of local disease.
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Not necessarily. I’ve watched apple mosaic virus in my apples which is very visible on the leaves and the concentration varies a lot from shoot to shoot. Maybe there is not as much virus present higher above the ground where I put my grafts, or maybe the JT-02 has less of a viral load in it.
Also many viruses in fruit trees don’t leave. You can pay money to get scions heat treated to remove the virus, that’s the only way to remove it.
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This is really interesting about the heat treatment, like a fever. (And I bet we could do it ourselves a carefully measured water-bath or double boiler should be able to do it, and I might start doing that, I need to check the safe temperatures for the scions and the temperature needed to eliminate whatever is causing the viruses)
Certainly there are viruses, but they’re the most misunderstood and mythological part of our health practices, and this also extends to the original “discovery” of the virus the "tobacco mosaic virus” which ultimately was determined to be caused by insect damage which could not heal in a high humidity environment like it could in a dry environment, likely not due to bacteria, but that’s also possible, but it was certainly insect damage (also studied with sterile needles to the same effect) with high humidity, which was later discovered to be the cause of tobacco mosaic physical damage+high humidity and perhaps a also bacteria that is innocuous without physical damage to the plant.
But my point is that many many cases o with unknown causes of disease are blamed on infectious viruses that are still theoretical as a cause of disease, all the evidence shows that viruses are the product of disease, and we still need to find the cause.
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Does anyone know where I could buy a hybrid persimmon seedling that produces fruit? (Not sure if only females or males produce). I dont have any hybrid persimmons and I love the idea of having a seedling that could resprout from the ground if something were to happen
Contact Cliff England at England orchard nuttrees.net . He can sell you the hybrid persimmon seeds.
Tony
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Assuming that my JT-02 and Kasandra are seeded this year by a nearby Taishu (as in the past), I’ll be giving away seeds. Roughly half the sprouts should be female. A female should produce fruit without pollination by a male.
Remind me in October.
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Thank you! Any way to identify a female while the trees are young? I have spots for 2, that’s about it!
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Not that I’m aware of. You could grow them in pots until you’re sure. Or you could plant 2-3 in each hole, let them grow, then kill all the males.
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That is a great idea and what I’ll plan to do.
Thank you again, I will be looking out for those seeds 
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