It's "best of the best" varieties time again

Which have been your longterm survivors or suffer the least winter damage, Scott?

Thatā€™s what I was suspecting based on the light yellow color of fruits that others are showing in their photos. This brings the questions: How low of a temp would non-astringents tolerate before they get gooey from freezing? I like non-astringents when they start softening, but not when they become jelly like astringents.

Also, do persimmons sweetness/flavor benefit from hanging on trees after leaves have fallen any more than leaving them to ripen on the counter? This question is for both astringents and non-astringents.

I would say 20th Century has been the best non-astringent. I also have a Jiro but it has not been as vigorous and is more prone to dieback. On the astringent side Saijo was very reliable. Huk Gam is proving very reliable now.

I had a general problem that many of my persimmons fell into a low-vigor mode after about 10 years, they basically runted out. I have had to add some new stocks in to replace these old non-vigorous ones. This is not from winter damage I donā€™t think, it seems like the roots just lose energy. Some are still vigorous though.

@Ahmad I usually pick right before the first hard freeze, 25F or so. Also once the leaves are gone I usually pick, but not sure it matters much vs counter ripening.

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Hey Scott. Im a bit farther north of you in NY State, zone 5, an hour above Albany, NY in Lake George. I have been wiped out by Blackknot and have been replacing my trees with resistant variteties. The varieties that got it bad were Bruce, Methley, Santa Rosa, Black Ice, Hanska, August Beauty, Shiro, and the worst was Stanley Prune. The varieties that have not shown any and were later were Alderman, which was 10 feet from the Stanley Prune, and Superior. Have a younger Waneta that hasnt shown anything yet. Ive put in young trees of The President, NY 9(Kenmore), Bluebyrd, Early Italian, and trying a Shiro again. Loved that one so maybe there is a bit of a difference in them.
It was hard to find any really helpful info about Blacknot resistant varieties because many of the varieties that got it bad on my property were supposed to be resistant. Ive never seen any info about Alderman and Superior being resistant but they shared canopies with ones infested and havent gotten any Knot. The others are noted to be resistant to very resistant, albeit flavor my lack. But that changes year to year. Santa Rosa was great and then the next year not edible and then back, so you never know.
For Apple:
Still love the Honeycrisp, but putting in a Buckeye Gala this spring. A Lodi as well just to have another early variety but not sure on the taste of that one.
I have some Pears, two Asian (Moonglow and something else I cant remember this second), but I cant seem to time the picking on the Moonglow as it ripens very early and usually rots inside before I can ripen them properly. I need early varieties as I leave for Florida by late September. I pick the other Asian and a Bartlett and take a bushel back with me and dry them as chips when they ripen usually.
Would love to hear if you can think of any other Plum Varieties that dont get infested with Blacknot.

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Deer - had that problem until we put up a fence (DIY, >3 acres) and got dogs, Virginia Sleeping Dogs, but they do the trick nonetheless. You might not be able to do so with neighbors, etc. What figs are you growing? Thanks for GrowingFruit and all you do.

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how is the flavor on the huk gam? the color is very unique. comparing to another astringent type?

My experiences with black knot is the Euros tend to get it worse. The only tree I ever lost to it was Rosy Gage. The one exception for me is Middleburg, it is a Euro that never knots for me. For the Asians it is just a notch down from the Euros. Now that you mention it I donā€™t recall any on my Superior. I donā€™t pay a a lot of attention though, I just cut out the knots and generally everything does OK. If you are having knot breakouts make sure you either cut out, prune out, or blowtorch as soon as you see them, and look often.

@zeppley I am growing a bunch of figs, e.g. Celeste, Battaglia Green, Excel, Hardy Chicago, Kathleen Black, Sals #1, Ronde de Bourdeaux, Brunswick, and several more. But they are really more just types as within the type I hardly notice any difference. So it seems like I really just have three fig varieties, honey (honey color inside), green (green outside when ripe), and brown (purple-brown outside when ripe).

@Seattlefigs Huk Gam tastes (and looks) like your standard PVA persimmon. It is not purple at all, not sure what the deal is thereā€¦ there were a few discussions about that here. There is nothing special about it, but it is a perfectly good astringent persimmon which is very vigorous for me. The main reason why I keep it is for the vigor as it is well over the deer.

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I had someone put up an 8ā€™ deer fence. Works fantastic. Also keeps the unwary out after I spray. For 100 trees, extrapolating downward, cost could be less than $8000, which is mucho less effort than digging up trees and waiting for the big trees to bear and dealing with replant issues, etc. Although truth be known, I have been yanking my older dwarfs and putting in G890s and 202s. BTW, a deer will have no problems getting up on its hind legs 6 or more feet in the air and resting its forelegs on branches.

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Amateur curiosityā€¦ What prompted you to choose G.202 for your semi-dwarf root stocks? Is there a downside to G.210, G.935 or G.969, also semi-dwarf size? I donā€™t understand why one might be better than another. Is it a location thing? I live in SE PA.

I read and studied the root stock descriptions available at the various university sites and put out by Cummins Nursery in NY. Then I asked the guys at Cummins what they recommended and why. For us in the Valley I have clay of many different types after the 6ā€ of top soil on our farm - orange, shale, you name it, but around my orchard it is 60ā€™ before we hit rock (have a 75 gpm well right next to the orchard - 360ā€™ deep, rock 60ā€™ plus down). So I knew I needed root stock that did well in clay and 202 and 890 fit the bill (and even M-111 on occasion) because they also tend to stand well without support, which is an issue given the wind conditions in the Valley. So far, it has been a good guess. For you in SE PA I recommend contacting Adams County Nursery and asking what they recommend and why. Know what it is you want - size, bearing capacity, resistance to certain pests (fungus, bugs, etc.), your ability to use pesticides, before you decide.

Note - I am not that fond of dwarf rootstocks or as the pomonologist at the the Alison Smith Center (Dr. Sherif) calls them, ā€œlow vigor.ā€ Some have done well for me - like Ginger Gold, Golden D, Red Rome, but others have been less successful. However, if I were going to use a dwarf root stock in the future, it would be a G and not a B. Also keep in mind that dwarf decline is a real thing and there are different things that trigger it - the folks at Adams may be able to guide you. I have attended meetings on it and its existence tends to concern me.

Being an orchardist is more an art than a science IMHO and luck matters, plus a good fence. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

I donā€™t think thereā€™s been enough long-term experience to definatively say this Geneva root is good, and this one badā€¦the ā€˜jury is still outā€™.

Iā€™m finding G202 and G30 are no more precocious than MM106 or Bud-118.

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