Jujube fruit set if you don't have hot dry summers

[Livinginawe]

Did you try spraying your jujubes with fertilizer at bloom, and did it work?

[Bhawkins]

No last year it rained every day for months. I tried twice but I’m sure it was rained out same day

This year I moved to a new house

[mamuang]

@BobVance,
How are your Shanxi’s fruit set? Are they still hanging on? I think I have two fruit on my Shanxi from ToA.

If they would drop, at what point they would off the tree?

[BobVance]

How are your Shanxi’s fruit set? Are they still hanging on? I think I have two fruit on my Shanxi from ToA.

I checked today and I still see about 6 hanging on the new tree. But, they don’t look that great- much smaller than the fruit on my more mature tree and not quite as shiny. Sorry, the pic didn’t come out in focus, though it gives you an idea of their size.

I have a graft (made last spring) of Shanxi Li on my older So, which has 2X+ more fruit. And yes, I do wear long sleeves in July. Avoid sunburn, ticks, and general itchiness. I spent 3+ hours weeding in the rain today. Not that bad, as it keeps things cooler.

For comparison, here is an un-grafted branch from the So. Lots of fruit set this year.

If they would drop, at what point they would off the tree?

I’m not sure, but I won’t feel too optimistic about them until we get into the 2nd half of August. I’m not sure when Shanxi Li is ripe, but for the last few years, So has been ready around Sept 10th.

One other note- the largest jujube from ToA (a Li) is now up over 7’ tall. Really strong growth. I haven’t bent any branches, but am planning to.

[mamuang]

@BobVance
Thanks, Bob. The leaves on your new Shanxi are very green. Mine are lighter green like young/new growth kind of green. Do you fertilize? If so, what do you use?

If the fruit hang on, I do not think mine would ripen in time. They are a month behind yours.

[Bhawkins]

I planted a dozen jujubees at my new house here in Dallas about 5/1; Li is fastest grower here too, 6’; w shanxi Li and Chico close behind. I tried bending some Li branches to see what happens. I tried a little nitrogen but a couple of my trees didn’t seem to like it, burned some leaves and slowed them down.

[scottfsmith]

I checked recently and my set is not looking at good as I had thought it was looking earlier… Shanxi Li doesn’t have a single set I could find and only scattered fruits on other trees. So its looking like yet another low set year for me. There were tons of flowers and there are still some flowers on the trees.

I might try the girdling procedure next year, I don’t have anything to lose. I have four new trees in new locations which I am also hoping will do a bit better.

[mamuang]

Scott,
I think Bob’s theory could be right that bigger bare root trees may produce sooner. My Shanxi has at least four fruit on one branch. It appears to have fruit set on other branches, too. The question is if those will ripen in time.

It looks like my tiny Honey Jar is setting fruit, too. Those may not stay on, though.

[mamuang]

The pic was just taken. Finally, we have rain. Thanks, Goodness.

[Bhawkins]

Shanxi is a light setter for me, at least after 7 years. Li and shihong seems to produce year 2 and at year 5 are very heavy setters, along w winter delight, here in Dallas

[BobVance]

Do you fertilize? If so, what do you use?

I didn’t fertilize with anything at planting. During the summer (maybe June or early July), I used a balanced fertilizer (marketed for gardens and tomatoes) on some. I think that was what was used on the young one which set fruit. On others, I went with Alan’s approach, which just delivers N. I think I’ll do another application of the balanced one on them today.

Li is fastest grower here too, 6’; w shanxi Li and Chico close behind

I think the Li being the largest at planting may have helped to give it a fast start (or it was largest because it just grows fastest, even for the nursery…). It was almost 1" caliper, while the two Shanxi Li was more in the 5/8-3/4 range. One of them is 5.5’ and the other is 6’.

So its looking like yet another low set year for me. There were tons of flowers and there are still some flowers on the trees.

Have you tried grafting a branches of each onto other trees? Maybe the extra proximity could help. More sun, which it sounds like the new plantings have, will probably help too.

[Livinginawe]

It is August and has been raining almost every day for the last month. My Li jujube that I put in a 18 gallon pot this past winter is fruiting out like crazy! I am really believing that it is a nutrient issue, as the soil has been extremely wet (I wasn’t planning on trying the “drought” experiment until next year). The soil that it is growing in is extremely rich, being made with about a third home-made compost and containing rock dust. Even the leaves are twice the size of the leaves on my other trees.
My thought is that in the dryer parts of the country, jujube has access to the high levels of ammonium nitrogen (and other nutrients) that sit several feet below the surface. In dry soils, while nitrate generally decreases with depth, but ammonium nitrogen actually increases. Jujubes long root system has access to that nitrogen. In the wetter parts of the country, both forms of nitrogen generally decrease with depth. So my point is…That jujube is NOT actually a low nitrogen plant, it is just that it’s root system is capable of reaching deep pockets of nitrogen. My other thought is that maybe Paenibacillus beijingensis, jujube’s nitrogen-fixing bacteria, doesn’t live in “wet” climates.
Since jujube can accept foliar sprays of urea, I have started spraying my GA-866 jujubes with 2% urea. If I can get my two GA-866 jujubes to fruit this year or next year, I feel that will convince me, since I have haven’t gotten a single fruit from them in five years or so (I think they produced three fruit total).
It’s OK if you tell me I’m crazy…My wife tells me that all the time!

[jujubemulberry]

It’s OK if you tell me I’m crazy…

passionate is not the same as crazy, even though pretty close

My wife tells me that all the time!

welcome to the club!

My thought is that in the dryer parts of the country, jujube has access to the high levels of ammonium nitrogen (and other nutrients) that sit several feet below the surface. In dry soils, while nitrate generally decreases with depth, but ammonium nitrogen actually increases. Jujubes long root system has access to that nitrogen. In the wetter parts of the country, both forms of nitrogen generally decrease with depth. So my point is…That jujube is NOT actually a low nitrogen plant, it is just that it’s root system is capable of reaching deep pockets of nitrogen. My other thought is that maybe Paenibacillus beijingensis, jujube’s nitrogen-fixing bacteria, doesn’t live in “wet” climates.

some fruit trees actually get by very well without artificially introduced nitrogen fertilizers, and jujus and mulbs seem to be two in that incredible group. It is impossible to get something(vegetative growth) out of nothing(zero nitrogen), so NOT a crazy thought for these to have symbiotic relations with nitrogen-fixing microbes.

actually have empirical(and of course 100% anecdotal) evidence that jujus might need certain microbes, because the seeds have planted on ‘sterile’ and ‘fresh’ commercial soil mixes(100% straight from the bags) seem to be laggards compared to those planted on soil formulations admixed with native, seasoned dirt obtained directly from our grounds, or old soil mixes sitting around and likely already inoculated with native earth(i.e. pots with soil from last year’s already dead annuals).

i agree, foliar sprays would be the way to go, if you feel your trees are nitrogen deprived and if you are not inclined to disrupt the soil microbes with N, as researchers say N fertilizers are detrimental to nitrogen-fixing microbes http://grist.org/article/2010-02-23-new-research-synthetic-nitrogen-destroys-soil-carbon-undermines/

My Li jujube that I put in a 18 gallon pot this past winter is fruiting out like crazy! I am really believing that it is a nutrient issue, as the soil has been extremely wet (I wasn’t planning on trying the “drought” experiment until next year). The soil that it is growing in is extremely rich, being made with about a third home-made compost and containing rock dust. Even the leaves are twice the size of the leaves on my other trees.

excited to hear it may just be a nutrient issue, as this could literally dispel the main gist of the title of this thread “jujube fruit set if you don’t have hot dry summers”!

quite curious, was the potted specimen something you obtained recently from an outside source, or is it an old juju you dug up from your yard and planted in a pot?

[scottfsmith]

While I agree that nutrition could be an issue, potted plants are really in their own category and I would not put much weight on data from potted plants (unless you were interested in potted jujubes yourself). The pot is de facto pruning the roots and root pruning is similar to girdling in how it can help reluctant plants fruit.

[jujubemulberry]

very rich soil, too, is an indirect means of simulating dry conditions, as dry conditions concentrate solutes.
so a high amount of solutes(barred from entry into roots) may have the same effect as dry conditions, even though water is in abundance

much like highblood sugar levels of diabetics are aggravated by dehydration, and artificially offset by the patient drinking plenty of water and/or infused with saline. The overall sugar content in the blood stream is practically constant, and simply diluted or concentrated by amount of water in the blood stream

[Livinginawe]

" http://grist.org/article/2010-02-23-new-research-synthetic-nitrogen-destroys-soil-carbon-undermines/"
Great article! Seemed well researched and unbiased.
The potted jujube came from one I grafted spring of 2015 to a sucker in my jujube plot I use for grafting plants for friends (a 10’ x 20’ area I transplant small suckers into, so I don’t have to worry about keeping pots watered). I think I know what you are leading to…That it felt threatened by being dug up and is putting out fruit in response to being threatened. That may be true…and if urea sprays don’t produce produce, I have no problem of going around my trees and digging the shit out of their roots.
Besides my GA-866, I also have two Sihong trees that were grafted at the same time, are the same size, and are next to each other. I will test urea on one of the trees to see what effect (positive or negative) that it might have.
If all else fails, I still have not tried the girdling treatment (just seems cruel and inhumane).

[jujubemulberry]

I think I know what you are leading to…That it felt threatened by being dug up and is putting out fruit in response to being threatened. That may be true…

i was actually thinking the other way, but since you’ve brought it up, i reckon it is something worthy of consideration
that the recently transplanted suckers are more productive now makes me think the rich soil helped encourage fruit set, and perhaps also helpful were the better aeration and drainage inherent to being potted. It also indicates that jujus are capable of responding almost immediately, despite recent stressors. Or like you said, the stressor might actually be a positive variable of the fruit set equation.
have you gotten your sihongs to fruit? i hope they will be as productive there as they are here, and also hoping that fruit quality will be the same.
good luck on your urea tests/other experiments, and keep us posted here about your findings, since there are quite many in less humid climates(relative to yours-- but still more humid/moist than the mojave desert) who’d surely find your test results encouraging.
anything to make jujus more fruitful outside of the dryish south and southwest axis is award-winning imo.

[Livinginawe]

My Sihongs were grafted just four months ago, but they are already five feet tall. One of them had a couple fruit set, but they dropped or something. Sihong is supposed to produce here in the deep south…and that would be great, because we would have a great tasting jujube for the southeast. But I feel it is necessary to solve the mystery. I can’t believe it still appears to be a mystery…but internet sources from all over the US and Australia make it into one. Just such a strange beast: Usually differences in fruiting between cultivars of a particular fruit tree are differences in chill hour requirements…This is something strangely different. But I was quite pleased to get some Li jujubes this year; about a dozen small Li jujubes from a two year old tree planted next to the rose garden, and six large, sweet, late-arrivals on my large Li jujube. I have eaten three of the six so far, and they were so good that it has made me anxious to produce abundant crops.

[jujubemulberry]

I have eaten three of the six so far, and they were so good that it has made me anxious to produce abundant crops.

getting them to produce abundantly outside the ‘jujube belts’ is an obsession for me too!
watching these trees produce prodigious amounts of fruit is just so ‘easy on the eyes’. Soon realized that giving away baggies of the nutritious and zero-pesticide fruits to anyone and everyone are at least as fulfilling and worthwhile as enjoying our harvest privately.

feels so good having jujus for ourselves, and feels so good giving them away

[tonyOmahaz5]

Honey Jar Jujubes are looking real good. I will top work a large GA 866 to a Honey Jar next Spring and also will graft about 4 more HJs to the seedling understocks. I don’t want to waste any more time on the shy producers anymore.

Tony

Honey Jar

Wild Jujube for cross pollination and plant seeds for rootstocks.