Two different years I have harvested fruit and planted seeds in July and early August and both showed >90% germination within two weeks time. Honey Jar and contorted varieties. IMO they do not need stratification to germinate. I have read reports to the contrary but I have proven it not true.
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If you graft that low, it is more like a low branch, rather than a competing leader.
Agreed, though I generally prefer cleft grafts if I can make the diameters work. Not only do I find it a stronger graft, but you can make it earlier in the spring, even before the bark is slipping. But, if you have only small wood, or want to replace an entire tree, then bark graft is probably the way to go.
IME, it is OK, but not that impressive. Of course, from Prof Yaoâs genetic testing, my R4T3 matched Shuimen, which it shouldnât if it is a true seedling from the TVA. I got mine from Cliff a number of years ago.
You should add one (or more) of the following. Much better fruit quality than all 3 of the ones you listed:
Honey Jar (edit: I see in your last post that you also have this one- good start 
)
Sugar Cane
Black Sea
Early Golden Crisp
Bing Tang
KFC, Massandra, and So would also be better.
That is a pretty disappointing germination rate. I just counted and of the 19 pots, 8 have 2 seedlings, 10 have 1 and one has none. So, I got 26 of 39 to germinate, exactly 2/3. Of course, my later plantings are still lagging, but I think it will just take a little longer. So far only one (a Texas Tart) has come up.
They also need particularly sunny weather (at least in my location) to hold onto the fruit. Each year they drop a lot and the one year that they didnât (producing an acceptable/average amount) was very sunny. In the 2 years since then, my two Shanxi Li had a small crop and an almost nonexistent crop, so it isnât just a matter of age.
No, but I do let them dry for a couple weeks before storing them in labeled ziplocks, inside glass jars for a month or two (indoors, at ~70F). That initial drying helps them crack, rather than mush and makes a huge difference in protecting the seeds.
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Just to clarify, is Early Golden Crisp different from Zaocuiwang, translated as âEarly Crisp Kingâ?
Here is the info from the NMSU jujube website:
AmeriZao⢠Zaocuiwang
Š2024 New Mexico State University- Board of Regents
**Zaocuiwang: (âćŠčçâ translation âearly crisp kingâ; AMERIZAO⢠Zaocuiwang, AMERIZAO⢠ZCW)**Early to midseason with large fruit, for fresh use. Origin: Cangzhou Jinsixiaozao Nursery, Cangzhou, Hebei Province, China. âShandong Lizaoâ (âĺąąä¸ć˘¨ćŁâ, âShandong Pearâ) selection, with DNA sequences identical to parent in genotyping with SNP markers; released 2001; imported to U.S. 2011 by New Mexico State University. Fruit: large, 22-26 g; ovoid, slightly tapered at stem end; skin bright brown/red; texture fine; flavor excellent; 28-33.6 _Brix for full-red fruit in New Mexico; ripens early. Tree: midsize; growth habit spreading; precocious, yield medium to high; fruits hang ornamentally on tree; only jujube cultivar in the U.S. without pollen; suitable for home gardeners and commercial production, including marginal regions with short growing seasons.
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Definitively not the same. Iâm not all that good with translation, but I can tell that the shape is quite different.
Edit:
I also grafted Zhang Cui Zao (from Cliff) and Early Crisp King in 2024. No fruit from either yet.
The name âZhang Cui Zaoâ is similar to Zaocuiwang, but I am not sure it is the same. Moving Zao from front to back, and changing Wang to Zhang. Seems like it could just be a translation difference/issue.
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Does anyone have any experience with shuimen/suimen?
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Not on purpose, but from Prof Yaoâs genetic testing my R4T3 and R1T4 match Shuimen. Both have produced fruit for several years, but neither has been that productive, or that impressive in terms of quality.
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OhâŚ. I was watching a video from Australia yesterday where they compared Li, Shuimen, Chico, and something else I canât remember, but they absolutely loved shuimen.
So I found a US based shop that sold it, and thought Iâd ask here. Dang! I wonder why they loved it there, but it doesnât do as well here in the states.
The shop also sells Sandia. So maybe Iâll go with that, and then eventually graft a sihong onto it also so I will have those two varieties on it.
I donât knowâŚI might try to get a Scion of sugarcane and graft onto my honey jar tree so that has two on it.
Sandia is very good and extends the late season. Sandia/Dong are by far the best late season jujubes. Iâm not impressed with the others, such as Sherwood, Tigertooth, etc. The only other late jujubes which are good are the stragglers from the earlier varieties. Sometimes, early season trees (especially those which had a very small main crop) will produce a 2nd later crop in the late season.
Sihong can be good, but is often non-productive in marginal climates. I have a graft at a rental which makes good fruit in most years, but the ones at my house have been very stingy, even in year #7. And I wouldnât say their location is marginal- just not quite as ideal as the rental. The fruit is not super-crisp, but good-enough texture and very good flavor.
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As always, you and K8tpayso are a font of knowledge.
I have yet another question.
I assume that there are differences in vigor between varieties? But would that become a problem?
For instance, my honey jar tree is excruciatingly slow growing compared to my chico tree. If I add another scion to the honey jar treeâs main structure( to increase fruit set, and to try out other varieties before committing to another independent tree), is it possible that the newly grafted scion might grow at a faster rate than the original honey jar graft?
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Iâm new to Jujube, I grabbed a Li and Honey Jar, and left them inside while I was on vacation and they started waking up. So keeping them going for now, unfortunately that means iâll likely have to plant them while they are growing. From what I understand, otherwise, no issues though in Zone 8?
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They are in pots, right? If they are in pots you can plant them any time. Its better when they are dormant but its fine when they are growing.
Hey my âBlack Seaâ fruited for the first time this year and all the fruits were peanut M&M in size ⌠super small! I have never seen a jujube variety start off with fruits so much smaller than usual. Jujubes love to sprout from the rootstock and I am thinking that happened with mine - ?? I could give it another year if needed but Iâd prefer to top-work it this coming year as its in a great spot and I would like to get a good variety on to it.
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Scott,
Bob V. Really liked the Early Golden Crispy (EGC) or Bing Tang aka Icy Sugar. They both produced well for him.
Tony
Yes I got those from Bob last year in fact. I put them on a three way tree though and was thinking I would now put the Bing Tang on what seems like not Black SeaâŚ
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Jujubes should be bulletproof in 8
Were your tiny Black Sea fruit football-shaped or round? My Black Sea has had a wide range of fruit sizes. The first few years it fruited for me the fruit were relatively small but tapered on each end (unlike the round fruit of the rootstocks). Sometimes the stem end of the fruit is less tapered than the opposite (bottom) end. Some fruit were the size of Honey Jar and others were smaller. This past season, I had some Black Sea fruit that were significantly larger than the average Honey Jar. Based on my experience, I would give it more time since it was among the most productive and tastiest jujubes I grew last year, and the favorite of everyone I shared them with.
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I havenât noticed any massive differences attributable to just the variety with a couple exceptions. There is plenty of difference between any two locations, even with the same variety. Trees on dryer soil with less water holding capacity tend to be much smaller, though that can be combat by me adding water, something I donât always do at rentals.
The biggest exception is So, which takes a more spreading, bush-like form, though it can still get tall. Dragon, the other well known jujube with zig-zag branches is supposed to be dwarfed as well. I only have one (vs over a dozen So), but it has not grown very fast at all.
Iâve heard that Honey Jar is slightly on the lower-vigor side and Li is above average for jujube. But it is really hard to notice that much difference. I have a Li next to a HJ and the HJ is slightly bigger at one site and about the same at another. I donât think youâll see any dramatic differences.
Were they still good, or were they sour? And as ncdabbler asked, were they the right shape?
From my experience, some varieties like Sugar Cane get less sweet, but keep their size when under-thinned/overset for conditions. Black sea stays sweet, but gets smaller. If that is what you are seeing, another year could help.
If it turns out that you donât have Black Sea, Iâd be happy to send you wood to graft it.
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Yes they were football shaped. Maybe I should wait one more year. They were not sour, they tasted pretty good.
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I was also considering grafting over my Black Sea after the first two seasons it fruited for me because it ripened at the same time as Honey Jar and wasnât as prolific and had small fruit. One season the Black Sea fruit had a bitter aftertaste. Now Iâm glad I gave it more time because the fruit this last season was much bigger on average (though still a mixture of large and small fruits) and no hint of the aftertaste. They also had a much longer ripening window than in previous years. Now Iâm glad to have both Honey Jar and Black Sea and finally understand why @BobVance rates Black Sea so highly. I guess jujubes are like figs in that some cultivars taste great the first time they fruit, and others take a few more years to get to optimal quality.
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