Mix Imidan & Triacizide?

Is it ok to mix IMIDAN and TRIACIZIDE?

Imidan has the longer PHI so I was thinking to add Imidan to the early season spray only.

Mike

Mike,

Is this the same Imidan you use in the link below.

http://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/imidan-insecticide-70-w-5-pounds-399.html

Tony

Yes Tony, this is the stuff.

I know we mix different fungicides together to get different vectors attacking the problem and to reduce chances of building up pest resistance, even though building resistance in the home orchard may not be a high probability issue.

But, I was just wondering if adding another insecticide like Triacizide is beneficial for the same reason.

Mike

Mike, when I sprayed Triazicide I sprayed it at a way higher rate than recommended on the label and still got PC damage. I personally don’t think it’s very effective at all against PC and that opinion has been shared by many on GW. It also has issues as a post bloom spray and with higher temperatures.
I am aware that gama cyhalothrin is supposed to be an effective PC spray, but the recommended mix ratio must be far too low for effective control or the lack of lamda cyhalothrin in combination maybe, I dunno. The current Triazicide formulation is something like 99.9% non active ingredient.
I for one don’t think there would be enough benefit (if any) to spraying in combination with Imidan to warrant it’s use in this way. It may even be counter productive.
I think Imidan already has enough broad spectrum control to stand on it’s own.

This is just my take on it of course.

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I had PC damage this summer even using Triazicide. How much more do you use in the mixing of it.

John, I don’t use it anymore, but I’ve mixed it very heavy and the results (though difficult to quantify) didn’t really seem to improve much.
I really shouldn’t have exceeded the label, but we buy these things to kill bugs and I suspect the “designer” commercial pyrethroids deliver a lot more punch.
I bailed on it in favor of Imidan and haven’t had enough use of it yet to determine for myself, it’s effectiveness. If university reports are accurate, I’m sure it will be ok.

Mike, it looks like it is done (perhaps illegally) and seems as though there is research to support the practice. Seems the big issue is when cases of accidental or suicidal ingestion occurs.

If you Google “Mixing organophosphates with pyrethroids” there is a lot of reading available on the subject. Sounds like there may even be marketed combinations available in India.

Most agricultural chemicals are compatible with products containing oil joined with those with sulfur being the most common exception, but the labels always suggest trialing a single branch when the issue is in question. Of course phytotoxicity is not the only potential problem as some combinations might cause more delayed problems, such as fruit russeting.

There would seem to be no point in combining the materials you mention. The advantage of Imidan over a pyrethroid is that it is more selective and is soft on beneficial mites and other predators. To me, the key advantage of a pyrethroid is that it is much better on bugs, including stinkers. If you are already using a pyrethroid, what is the point of adding Imidan? Are you trying to delay resistance? I don’t think that’s likely to occur at a small orchard.

I would never choose a pyrethroid over Imidan for pest control reasons except when plant bugs have become a problem, which here is usually a summer issue- although tarnished plant bug can be an earlier problem than that with peaches and nectarines. Stink bugs have yet to bother apples here for me.

Most of the time I’ve had a decent warning of bug damage, so I can actually time sprays when I begin to see cat facing injury by bugs. It is plum curculio that I spray for preemptively.

I suggest you spray the apples and Euro plums with the Imidan and pears and peaches with Triazide instead of mixing them. J. plums you can spray with either. If you use one spray, use straight (without Triazide, not without fungicide) Imidan in spring.

@alan, When you say “one spray” do you mean once a season or a single ingredient spray throughout the season?

I opened the Mylar Imidan bag and nearly fell over from the olfactory assault . I put the individual bags into new empty metal paint cans. Oooof!!!

Mike.

yeah…it’s not pleasant, that’s for sure. After it’s on the trees for a while I notice it smells like a chicken house around the trees.
I actually like the fact that it stinks, it triggers more of a danger signal to me. I’m more mindful that it is after all a poison, and I’m much more cautious with it. The pyrethroids (the ones I’ve been around) lack this odor and as a result I’m a bit more careless. Hands to mouth, forgetting about my clothing etc.
I wear a tyvek smock, latex gloves with cotton underliners and a 3M respirator and a hat when I spray it. I never wore anything with Triazicide. I got twitchy and nervous after spraying Triazicide and in the course of spraying it I frequently got drift on me.
I got a rash on my shoulder and back last year from it, but I had other materials combined including sulfur. All of the materials could cause it, but it very well could have been the sulfur. It’s MSDS seems to imply it can often cause this reaction (skin rash with a drying sensation).

It is still listed as a low toxicity spray. Probably because it smells so bad no one hangs around long enough to have any lengthy exposure. :smile:

Mike

For apples, at least, Imidan is the better option over any pyrethroid, IMO and experience. At two of my sites using a pyrethroid seemed to create an unbearable outbreak of whitefly on apple orchards (something I had never seen anywhere before the use of it) and it also encourages mite outbreaks on susceptible species including apples and E. plums.

Peaches and pears haven’t been a problem with pyrethroids and they provide some protection that Imidan does not- notably from stink bugs and pear psyla.

@alan , Since I have a mixed and high density orchard I was hoping to kill 2 birds with one stone. One fill of my 16 gallon sprayer is a perfect volume of spray using a single pass.

Mike

" I was hoping to kill 2 birds with one stone."

Triazicide seems to kill fewer birds. I’ve noticed more successful nests in trees sprayed with a pyrethroid than I ever saw when Imidan was my workhorse. Kidding but not kidding.

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@alan

The two “birds” I was trying to kill was spray once (16 gallons) getting both the pommes and the stonefruit.
Not having to mix and apply two separate batches (8gals. of Imidan and 8gals. of Triacizide) separately.

Mike

Yeah, I got what you were saying, that’s why I mentioned I was kidding. I also tried to explain the possible problems with your method of simplification. The only benefit I can see of putting Imidan in the mix with Triacizide is that Imidan has some kick back, so if fruit already has crescent scars the Imidan can seep in and kill the larva or eggs of PC.

Ok… so I sprayed with Immunox, Captan, and Triacizide last Saturday (May 16)

The peaches are lemon seed size, the plums 1/16 to 1/8 inch, apples,pears & cherries are larger than pea size and apricots large olive size. There has been absolutely NO rain since but rain is expected this Wed & Thurs and into Fri.

There is minscule amount of evidence of any PC or any other pest and only on the apricots. (Less than one (1%) percent).

I am scheduled to do my second spray on Saturday it being two weeks after the last one. I am 2/3 apples/pears and 1/3 stone fruit.

So… , in keeping with what I think I got in this thread, I plan on mixing up 15 gallons of the Imidan mix for the apples & pears and then there is no harm adding Triacizide to the last 5 gallons in the tank when I get to the the stone fruit.

Dos that make sense?

And… Does that pretty much take care of the spraying unless we get real brown rot weather?

Mike

Yes to the first, maybe to the second. Keep your eyes open for stink bugs and, of course, Jap beetles.

The triazide will help with possible pear psyla, tarnished plant bugs, and, of course, early stink bugs, all of which are likely to leave apples alone.

Thanx, A

A few weeks ago I mixed Immunox & Triacizide and did not get good results. It looks like it burned the leaves! I was very worried but my apples seem to have pulled through. It’s time to spray again and I don’t want the same results. What do you think I did wrong? Can I mix the two?