New here - starting a home orchard ?’s

Hello everyone, I live in Bonners Ferry Idaho zone 5. I’m looking to start a home orchard with a variety of apples, cherries and plums. I might also try some other fruits just for fun.

Because started trees are so expensive, I’m looking to start with cuttings from local trees from neighbors and family. My question is, should I grow cuttings in containers for more than a year so I can bring them indoors over their first winter (give them a little extra growing time in protected conditions) or is it best to plant them out the first fall?

Thanks for any help or tips you all have!

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I’d suggest currants, elderberries and figs if starting from cuttings is the plan.

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Hi Kelby,
Welcome to the forum. It seems you may have enough patience and time to try stooling a known rootstock. You can of course air layer the limb of a fruit tree and obtain a rooted clone; however, this method does not get you a dwarf or semi dwarf tree if that is your goal, most likely you would get a normal size tree that way. Cloning only coveys the variety but not the nature of growth which is controlled by the rootstock.
On the other hand you can obtain the type of rootstock you wish to grow for each variety and obtain a quality known rootstock from a nursery. Once you receive the rootstocks just follow a simple stooling procedure to multiply the rootstock to grow the number of trees you ultimately want to grow.
Once you have the rootstocks that are a couple years old or have reached 3/8” diameter, you can then take scions from your local trees to graft your desired variety onto the rootstocks.
A good propagation text you may obtain from the local library is Hartmann and Kester’s Plant Propagation Principals and Practice. It will give you a good introduction, before you start. There are several good utubes on Stooling a rootstock.
Dennis
Kent, wa

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@Kelpy

If you are looking to plant a large number of trees consider planting rootstocks then graft them the following year FRUIT TREE SEEDLINGS | Willamette Nurseries rootstock clonal seedling fruit tree ornamental seedlings
A $30 - $50 tree suddenly becomes a $2 tree. Welcome to the forum we are glad you are here.
There is a wealth of knowledge here.

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I keep mine growing extra time the first year. It is easy to stat the season early when days are long despite more cold and frost than to extend the season over fall when sun is extra low and days are short.

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Home Orchard- what kind of space do you have to work with?

Trees are so expensive- ? Not sure where you are shopping but online most of the trees that i have were in the $20-30 range… In the spring Rural King and other stores like them are fairly cheap too… around $25/tree.

Cuttings- IF this all works out and every cutting roots, you will be looking at getting fruit in 5-8 years or more…

Help or tips- Choose varieties with the most disease resistance… if you think trees are expensive… fighting diseases isnt cheap.

Since you are in Z5 pick cold hardy varieties.

Buying fruit at the store will cost you a whole lot more over 5 years than buying a good tree with good rootstock and is fairly precocious NOW.

So if i were you i would pick a couple of varieties of the fruits that you want, that are disease resistant and bear fruit fairly early that are cold hardy to your zone.

I would root cuttings on the side since you want to… if it all fails then at least you have trees in the ground.

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I agree with @krismoriah . The early fruiting of a purchased tree will make up for the price you paid for it compared to growing rootstock and grafting

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Welcome. Can’t speak to your question since our zones are so different but at this stage you might get some advantage from this post:

Best of luck with it.

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Thanks everyone for the advice and welcome. I’m just a fruit lover that wants to try a little of everything. My family has about 300 acres and there is a chance I could inherit or live on it one day. Like everyone, the faster stuff fruits the better but realistically the deer pressure and such necessitates a larger than dwarf tree.

So, planting a 100+ trees will get a little too expensive to buy $40 gurneys trees. We have time on our side for a little trial and error.

I like the rootstock tips for getting disease resistant trees. I plan on getting some rootstock to propagate for future grafting.

Excellent community you all have here and I look forward to expanding my knowledge of fruit production. Thumbs up!

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@Kelpy

Agree with you I think trees from the nurseries are expensive. I’m not saying those trees they sell are not worth it as sometimes I buy 50+ or more at a time. A person cannot start out spending a fortune on everything in life. If you have health on your side and if I were you I would get me a durable sharp shooter like this one https://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-Steel-D-handle-Transplanting-Spade/dp/B000F95D0I/ref=asc_df_B000F95D0I/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198106292047&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12567526717053539685&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023967&hvtargid=pla-319287202760&psc=1 and some rootstocks like these callery for $1.24 each Callery or Bradford Pear | Willamette Nurseries rootstock clonal seedling fruit tree ornamental seedlings
Then I would plant out my first 100 trees by marking out the rows about every 10 feet between trees and 20 feet between rows. Then would rock that sharp shooter shovel back in forth in those spots you marked out 10 holes at a time. Then go back stick 10 trees in at a time. Have a wheelbarrow or bucket and give each a shovel of manure. Finally go back and stomp the hole shut around the tree and give the tree a gallon of water each. That’s why you want to start with small trees they are easier to plant. You can fight big nurseries trees but it takes to much time and it’s to much work. Would do it in the spring and slip the new tree in the wet ground and a shovelfull of aged cow manure or handful of fertilizer during the rainy season. You do that you can plant 100 trees in a day you just need to pay the $124 + shipping on 100 callery pears. You might decide on a different rootstock but pears are forgiving to grow , easy to graft, and get tall enough deer cannot take all your fruit. Everyone has their own ideas I’m just saying if I wanted a pear orchard and I were you that’s what I would do. By next year if you take care of those trees it will be time to graft them. If you graft some to Harrow sweet or Harrow delight you might be eating pears in 2 or 3 years if the soil is good and you take care of the trees. Then you have pears to eat while you wait on the others to start producing. Pears don’t need spray like your other choices typically. Something to think over. Tell you a trick go to the oldest abandoned homestead you know of what’s still growing there? If it’s a pear that’s what you want to grow. Pears out live the people who plant them, I’m sure mine will out live me. If your still living there in 70 years and your retired some of those pears will still be there for you to eat. Maybe more than half if they like it there. Pears in Kansas have no problem living to 50 - 100 years or more. When your an old man you can smile 100 pear trees for less than $200 will pay out far better than any other investment you can make. Pears produce hundreds of pounds of pears off each heavy producing tree and 20 -40 pounds off the lightest producer. Good luck on whatever you decide I’m biased on pears so keep that in mind.

These threads are examples on what I do with pears

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Welcome to the forum Kelpy! If you are looking in the 100+ tree range I’d recommend buying from a wholesale nursery and getting larger bare root trees if you want to produce fruit sooner. Keep in mind bigger trees means more work digging bigger holes.

Other considerations - look for the traits you NEED for your circumstances and be brutal about reducing the amount of varieties you are looking to grow once you have your qualifications.

For example, do you intend to spray? If so you can grow many more apple varieties. If not, you should be extremely picky about the varieties you choose so you have a better chance of getting good fruit.

Also, do you have irrigation set up or will you need it for your trees to survive with the soil in your location? If so, I’d highly recommend setting that up before you invest the time and effort into trees that will struggle.

There are plenty of discussions about various good nurseries here, start reading to get a feel for them. Vaughn Comes to mind for a large order at a good price. Make sure you familiarize yourself with sizing of rootstocks and what that entails for your trees. This influences spacing etc.

If cost is the limiting factor, I’d recommend learning to graft right from the start. Rootstock is cheap in bulk and one scion can usually be used for 5+ trees if you are careful.

Also - Idaho is a beautiful state. I’ve been to Coeur d’Alene, Boise, Stanley, Driggs and rafted the Middle Fork of the Salmon River.

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Welcome. Be sure to budget in deer fencing (individual tree or orchard perimeter) of some sort. Even if just for temporary use to grow your trees above deer height.

When laying out your orchard, keep possible perimeter fence in mind. That means a regular shape, like rectangular, that’s easiest to fence. I failed to think of this because I was certain individual cages were a great solution. I later changed my mind and had to move some sizeable trees before putting in perimeter fence plus hot wires.

It’s a big decision up front- what height tree do you want to manage? For me everything is so much easier on an 8 foot tree. I can easily inspect branches for over-wintering blight cankers, easy to thin fruit, easier to prune. But many growers here like the bigger trees and don’t mind ladder work.

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This place is in a similar zone to you, and prices are very fair at $15 or so per tree. You could probably work out a deal for cheaper on a large order trees.

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Sounds like an ok deal…the price is right, hopefully the size, rootstock and other inputs plus customer service is also a good deal.

I try out small businesses…but I’d not put all my eggs in one basket nor order my entire list from a recently started business.

From the Ottoman empire to Recip Erdogan, Armenians have been treated as animals…so based upon that, $16 a tree may be a lot…I’d
give him a try if I needed some of his offerings.

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Welcome to the forum!
Cuttings of things like apple, cherry, plum, etc are hard to root… Much harder than grape or fig… If you are not a super experienced rooter, then you probably will not get hardly any of things like that to root.
That is why all nurseries sell them grafted.
Your best option for success:
Go to Fruit Tree Rootstock for Sale | Burnt Ridge Nursery | Buy Rootstocks Online | Grafting Propagation
Or
Cumminsnursery.com
and order you a bunch of cheap rootstock: only $3 to $5 each!
Apple, Cherry, Plum etc…
Carefully grow them out a year or 2, water them adequately, and then start grafting…
When they are a year or 2 old they will have enough energy to give you good grafting success rates.
You will have way better success, and have better roots, a better tree…
Oh yeah: And plan to protect your trees from deer and rabbit. I have to put a 6’ tall deer cage 2"×4" wire around each tree, plus a rabbit guard of like 1" wire 2’ high around each base.

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Some disease resistant plums are: Kenmore, Bluebyrd, President.
Some disease resistant apples are Freedom, Enterprise, Liberty, Sundance, Redfree, Priscilla, Novamac.
Some disease resistant cherry are Surefire, WhiteGold, BlackGold, Jubileum, Black York.

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@BlueBerry i ordered around 20 trees from Vaughn Nursery also… they are around $10/tree alot cheaper if you buy smaller. $6/tree on a 2-3’ whip. They been in business since 1959… i figured i couldnt go wrong with those prices.

mehrabyan carried some that they didnt so i gave them a shot too.

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@Kelpy you should watch The Permaculture Orchard video. Also Stephan Sobkowiak’s channel on youtube.

He has a 12 acre orchard and its more than one man can handle or manage.

How many acres are you planning on your ‘home orchard’?

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I’d suggest figs, but in that zone you may simply be too cold without some substantial work protecting it.

Also be sure you have adequate drainage where you are going to be planting. Fixing drainage after the fact is very difficult.

It doesn’t seem like you are going to plant anything small enough to need trellis support, but if you start planting bramble berries be sure to put the trellis in first.

I would suggest you do a lot of research before you buy anything. The forum has a ton of information on it. There are spray guides, guides to disease resistance and a bunch of experienced home growers on the forum. I think you should take a look at this thread (and many others) and carefully build a plan of what you really want to accomplish.

Also grafting trees in small quantities may be just as expensive as buying them while requiring you to carefully care for them. Grafting trees if you’re an experienced grafter in large quantities where you buy rootstocks by the bundle is cheaper. But most people start out small. In the beginning, I think it would be wise to buy a few trees and learn about your local conditions including diseases, pests, soil and climate. If you want to try your hand at grafting at the same time in addition to buying trees I would say go for it. Also be aware it is easy to graft more trees than you can actually care for.

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