Persimmon Growers -- Would You Plant These

[Boochaman]

Let me preface this by saying I don’t know what to look for in persimmon trees very well – just operating from general observation. I don’t have anything against the source (I think he’s awesome and he’s been very helpful and responsive in answering my questions, etc.).

Indeed, I hope I’m being overcautious and these things are just fine. I’d like to get these in the ground, but at the same time, don’t want to make the time/space investment in them if these particular examples are duds. It’s coming down to these things are a bit ugly and my eyes/gut is doubting them a bit…

Basic background: live in zone 5a/b (on the cusp); foolishly planted a Nikita’s Gift this spring – it’s doing great, but after varied reading, am under the impression that it’s not quite cold-hardy enough, and therefore am making the call I might as well pull and replace it (space at a premium) with something more suitable to my climate. (Shame because it really is looking pretty good for a little tree).

Anyhow, ordered a Lehman’s Delight, a Celebrity and a John’s Pride. Got the order in last night.

Concern for all 3 but primarily on the Lehmans and Celebrity – the leaves are black/mottled – are these diseased?

On the Lehmans, it has one graft at a 45-degree angle to the trunk, how do I get a straight tree out of that?

On the Jons pride, all 3 tips are black/dead – how will this effect how it grows?

On the Celebrity, it appears to have been topped for some reason?

Pics:
leaf condition Lehmans

45-degree single stem graft (how do I get this tree straight? plant at angle?)

All 3 tips of the John’s Pride black/dead

Celebrity – topped?

Input by experienced persimmoners please, I’d like this to work out, but don’t want to waste time/space/energy if these are destined to be diseased/stunted/malformed.

[snowflake]

Persimmon leaves can get a little ratty later in the year. Not much to worry about there in my opinion. Just give them some 10-10-10 or similar next year. The one that veers off at a 45, did it look like it got damaged in shipping? You might be able to stake it back up vertical depending on how flexible it is, but I would first make sure it’s secured/protected above and below the graft. It will straighten itself out eventually, but persimmon take a while to stiffen up and can blow over (or grafts can break) when younger if they get too top heavy with leaves without support. Rub off any growth below the grafts next season.

[Boochaman]

Thanks snowflake, that helps to know about the leaves… I only have the NG here that I planted this spring to compare it to and the NG’s leaves still look good – different environments though of course.

No, there was no apparent damage, they were packed well and there were no broken off branches in the box, etc… I’ll have to gently see how flexible it is I guess – it seems delicate though and with only the one branch grafted, I’d hate to break that graft…

Any thoughts on the dead tips of branches/topped branches? Do persimmon come back from that?

[ribs1]

Get them in the ground right away. Give them lots of water and get them to dormancy.
Give them a little fertilizer in the spring. They will be fine.
Stake the bent one later.

[snowflake]

@Boochaman

Any thoughts on the dead tips of branches/topped branches? Do persimmon come back from that?

For me, it’s not that uncommon for persimmon to have some damage at the tops from insects or wind or other, or a bit of tip die back on young plants in the winter, but they come right back from that just fine.

[ribs1]

Those leaves are fine. Get em in the ground and water heavily. Maybe top dress with some compost and mulch.

[ramv]

Several of mine look worse this time of year. Nothing to worry about.

[Boochaman]

Perfect! Thanks for the insight everybody!

[Boochaman]

Got those in yesterday – staked the Lehman’s and the Celebrity today, left the original stake in with the Jon’s Pride when I planted it. Look OK?

Lehman’s – this is one with 45 degree bend, tried a gentle support on it to start bending it the right way, but not sure if this is good or not:

Celebrity:

The Lehman’s and the Celebrity dropped a leaf or two each since I planted them yesterday, only have 3-4 leaves left per tree – this OK?

Jon’s Pride:

Here’s the Nikita’s Gift I pulled out to make room for the Jon’s Pride (R.I.P. was a pretty tree):

[snowflake]

How much wind do you get? It’s ok to tie them tighter to protect the grafts if you get winds. They will be fine for now since they will probably drop their leaves for fall soon. Do you have rabbits or anything that might try to chew on them? I have to protect mine around here when young but perhaps the rabbits wouldn’t get on top of your raised beds?

[Boochaman]

I’ve not been bothered by critters yet – we have an eerie lack of wildlife here (new-ish development) – I haven’t seen a single squirrel, rabbit, skunk, deer, etc… Literally, not one. (Been here since April '19) And only a few birds. It’s kinda weird. But nobody has anything planted – aside from me maybe only 2 or 3 trees in the entire development – just a bunch of flat grass lawns on terrible clay soil (hence the beds). Only thing I’ve had to deal with is Japanese beetles and grasshoppers…

Wind isn’t generally bad – but when it is bad, it’s bad… Aside from the Derecho we had a month or two ago (freak occurence); I would say it’s 8-13 mph normally – up to about 25 mph if it storms. I try not to go too tight so a bit of sway helps build their roots – admittedly, I don’t know if this is the best way. Maybe not? It also seemed, once, when I did go tight, the little tree didn’t grow until I loosened it – but that might have just been coincidence. Should I go tighter?

[snowflake]

At that age, persimmon are whippy/flexible as crazy, and there isn’t really too much stiffening gained by letting them move in the wind. That comes later with a bit more diameter. Off the top of my head, a persimmon up to at least 1/2" diameter (with big leaves) might totally lay over in a storm (at the ground)…but with some more diameter, they start to stiffen up. Other than my grafted ones, my small ungrafted persimmon are usually in tubes (or cages) without support. The grafted ones I tie fairly secure to a pvc stake (that can flex a bit) with floral tape (it stretches some) just to protect the graft from being broken by winds – I have to loosen those occasionally. For you, it kind of depends on how strong those grafts are at this point. If the little tree is secured at the graft with just a single tie, and the top is left to move, it could snap at the graft in the wind.

[Boochaman]

Makes sense, thanks! (I’ll readjust – I’m assuming you’re looking more at the celebrity than the Lehman’s)

[snowflake]

I wouldn’t worry too much about straightening up that lehman’s short term. In fact, I might put the stake at an angle and secure it that way (so the top doesn’t have much room to move)…and not pull on that bend. If it’s shedding leaves fairly soon, it won’t be a big concern either way this fall/winter as the wind won’t be able to really hit it. Once it starts getting its root established, it will take off quick.

[Boochaman]

Again, makes sense!