Persimmon pollination Incompatibility

Hello,
I have been adding new varieties to my existing persimmon trees and I am hoping to avoid conflicts such as the Fuyu vs Hachiya cross pollination issue discussed in the below article. Since I have recently added Hachiya trees grafted onto American persimmon rootstock to my garden, and I have also grafted several Hachiya scions onto my Chocolate growing on a Lotus rootstock, I would like to know if others with persimmon experience have had this particular experience with Fuyu and Hachiya as described in the below article?

https://ucanr.edu/blogs/napanewspaper/index.cfm?tagname=Fuyu

“Neither the ‘Hachiya’ nor the ‘Fuyu’ needs cross pollination, which means that the tree will produce fruit without another persimmon tree nearby. In fact, cross pollination can be a problem if the ‘Hachiya’ and ‘Fuyu’ are planted within one-half mile of each other. If a ‘Fuyu’ is close to another variety producing male flowers, some of the ‘Fuyu’ fruit will be seedy. If a ‘Hachiya’ is pollinated from another variety, black areas will appear in the flesh and the fruit will have seeds.”

Please advise if you have personal knowledge of this conflict. I am considering removing all Hachiya wood from my garden or grafting them into other more compatible varieties next spring and would appreciate if you can corroborate the experience in the above article.
Thanks
Dennis
Kent, wa

2 Likes

I don’t see it as a conflict or a problem. You will get both fuyu and hachiya fruit. I know someone that planted both types in the same hole. He gets wonderful fuyu and hachiya fruit. I don’t know if he gets seeded fruit, but even if he did, it’s really not a problem. I wouldn’t worry about this at all.

2 Likes

Hi,
Your response is encouraging, I have learned from my experience with my Chocolate, that one has to do a lot of inquiring to find out what to expect in the future. It’s why I appreciate this forum and members like you who freely share their experience. In general some nurseries only tell the positive attributes of a cultivar and rarely give you the disadvantages.

On an older thread titled “Nikita Gift Fruit Drop”, I noticed that over a period of years you changed your opinion about this hybrid. I also noticed a comment that all your hybrids have seed. Yet in other comments about Nakitas Gift some people say it’s seedless or in some cases has only very small seed.
I recently added a number of Asian and Hybrid grafts to my Chocolate in a gradual process to top work this 6 year old tree into more desirable varieties, to include some Native American ones. Nakitas Gift is one of my cultivars added. So I am curious as to why your’s has seed whiles others say it has no seed?

Dennis
Kent, Wa

1 Like

Nikita’s gift could potentially be pollinated by an American male or a Kaki male.
If you don’t have either, you won’t have seeds. Male persimmon trees are extremely rare in WA state

Hi Ram,
Yes, I am aware of their rare presence, but I have recently added Catawba, a native on the east coast to several trees here and I am pretty sure I will need to add a companion male limb to pollinate it unless I decide to remove it. So I am trying to determine the fate of three varieties now (Chocolate, Catawba, and Hachiya).
I already know I will graft over all my 6 year old Chocolate with Pollination constant non-astringent (PCNA) varieties such as: Ichi Ki Kei Jiro, Fuyugaka, Giant Fuyu, Imoto Fuyu, Makawea, Suruga, and some Hybrids such as Kasandra, Nikitas Gift, Rosseyanka, Zika Khurma.
While these I have mentioned will be keepers, I am still debating adding either male and female natives like Catawba, Yates, Meador, and Prok.

So this is why I am trying to better understand what issues may be presented that would impact my desired “Keepers” before I add these new ones. I am working a lot with Stan in Tacoma on my research and grafting projects. If you have any of my mentioned Keepers and experience with them, we would love to hear it.
Dennis
Kent, wa

Dennis

1 Like

Suruga and Fuyugaki are unlikely to be keepers in Western WA. They are late and will certainly not ripen here.
Most/many of the kakis you have mentioned are also unlikely to work here. I personally would not bother with any PCNA other than maybe wase fuyu and izu.

1 Like

I get to see this fall if my Fuyugaka actually fruits and holds it, time will tell

Yes. This is a great forum and there are so many knowledgeable folks.

My two NG trees did really well last year. This year, it looks like they will produce a lot less. But I think that is because I had to top the trees (growing too high) and I let the water spouts take over. Prior to last year, it was hit or miss whether I felt they held onto enough fruit. I think it might be a variety- at least where I live- where it will have bumper crops.

Regarding NG seeds, mine are seeded but there are no males around. I live in a semi urban area so there aren’t any natives around. Maybe my two fuyu types could be pollinating them- but I don’t think that would be the cause of seeded fruit. My fuyus are seeded, so somehow my persimmons are pollinated. I have never seen male flowers on my trees though. At another location, my pure Asian varieties (Korea and steiermark) are never seeded— but my Kasandra, Zima Khurma, and sestronka hybrids are seeded.

2 Likes

Does the fruit also change shape when pollinated? I have heard that some parthenocarpic persimmons charge both shape & color when pollinated. That flat persimmon becomes more transparent translucent & heart shaped slightly, rather than opaque & flat. And some get cinnamon colors inside.
The black spots is a new trait I wasn’t familiar with yet. What about the skin color break?