PVNA persimmons present an interesting challenge because the fruit could be parthenocarpic or poorly pollinated resulting in astringency of the flesh while still firm. Nishimura Wase fruit are shaped differently when well seeded vs poorly or unseeded. Being able to differentiate is important for those who enjoy eating the fruit while firm.
Seeded fruit will have a more pointed stylar end.
Unpollinated fruit are often dimpled or flattened at the bottom.
Fascinating - thanks for describing these differences and sharing excellent photos!
You answered my question in subsequent post. Hopefully I remember to refer back to it in the future.
I only had a few fruit this year and will assume they are all unpollinated.
I did get a few seeds in some of my Izu, but it is also closer to the Chocolate that had male flowers.
I actually hand pollinated whatever flowers I feasibly could with a paint brush because I really enjoy the pollinated fruit. My Nishimura Wase had plenty of male flowers too.
I also have some small male flowering trees in pots that I move around to female trees as they bloom to assist as well if I’m relying on bees.
Trev,
Do you know if your Sweet Tooie a 90 chromosomes hardy american persimmon or the southern 60 chromosmes less hardy persimmon? @TNHunter
Tony
@tonyOmahaz5 … i do not know how to tell for sure if it is 60 or 90.
Based on location alone (southern middle TN) it should be 60.
Cliff at Englands Orchard says … South of the Ohio river should be 60… and I am way south of that.
I have heard that in some locations in KY (South of Ohio river) there are both 60s and 90s.
But could there be a 90 way down here in southern TN ? IDK.
It may just be a larger than normal, more tasty than normal southern 60c. It is nice mature tree getting all day sun and good soil.
It’s a bit of a misconception that there are only 60’s south of the Ohio. It’s really more that south of the Ohio is the only area where 60’s are prevalent. From what I’ve seen in publications, there are plenty of 90’s all across the region. The exact makeup in a given area will vary, and in some areas (say at the town or county level), there may be only one or the other.
I there some unique difference in 60s and 90s that can be positively identified by looks ?
A few differences can be seen. Leaves on 90 may have pubescence and 60 tends to make taller trees. I checked trees here and found them all to visually look like 60. More selection work with 60 chromosome trees is needed. I’ve seen fruit 2.5 inches diameter on a few trees.
I would be pretty sure that the wilds you are eating are 90C, since there really aren’t any 60C that have fruit that size that I am aware of. Perhaps someone knows something to the contrary, but there is a reason almost all the cultivars people grow are 90C varieties and I think even the 60C varieties people have bothered to name and distribute have pretty small fruit and don’t reach the same eating quality.
Pubescence: soft down or fine short hairs on the leaves and stems of plants. Many plants have pubescence designed to provide a tiny bit of shade to reduce the temperature of the leaves and stems and protect the leaves from losing too much water from transpiration .
Learned a new word today 
This evening cooking up 6 nice black perch for dinner… and making another batch of persimmon fruit leather.
Nice color !!!
A good method of preserving the harvest. 
Just curious, i have seedlings of my 100-46 (Lehmans Delight) and Prok…
What do you think the percentage of male seedlings will be (aka seedlings that don’t produce fruit) vs female seedlings (or hermanphrodidic or whatever kinda seedling produces fruit)?
Also I heard pawpaw seedlings produce similar fruit to their parents which got me thinking about persimmon.
Do persimmon behave in the same way? Will their seedlings (well the ones that produce fruit) have the same properties (mostly interested in fruit-size attribute the most). Otherwise I may just graft those seedlings over just to be sure, but might be fun to grow out a few to see how they turn out.
It is always fun to grow seedlings and see what shows up.
Persimmons should segregate close to 2 male to 1 female most of the time where 90 chromosome species are in question. Caveat that some male will produce a percent female flowers and some female will set some male flowers.
American persimmon is almost always dioecious. Monoecy is a rarity.
I mentioned this recently on another thread. I wondered why there seem to be no 60 x 90 crosses. The haploid number is 15n, with 60 chromosome being tetraploid (4n) and 90 chromosome being hexaploid (6n). If crossed, you’d wind up with pentaploid (5n) persimmons that I would presume tend to have similar advantageous traits as triploids (larger and higher quality fruit and flowers). Ive yet to hear of such to date and was wondering why.
Is height different between 60’s and 90’s? The trees in SE Ohio are tall (tree tubes are 5 feet) in picture so which are they?
My sisters trees are not all that tall… 35-40 ft… but there is nothing growing near them… all by themselves in wide open full sun space. They have no need to grow tall.
But she has another growing behind her garage in a fence row with other trees on both sides… and it is quite a bit taller… probably 50 ft… and has a large spreading top.
I tasted the persimmons from it this year for the first time and they had the same taste as the ones in her yard and they were larger than most wild persimmons as well.
I love my Saijo trees. Who would’ve thought these 2 were carrying such a large crop. They were mostly hidden by the leaves. I must’ve picked nearly 300. Thanks @thecityman for convincing me to plant these. They went in the ground in 2019.
