I don’t think there is a consensus. Outcomes will vary all over depending on the specific parents. You could go out in the woods in an area and make a count, but that number may not reflect the ratios present in another region.
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I can try this weekend. Not sure how much closer I can get with my phone camera.
To be clear, I don’t think these are functional either, at least as females. They definitely produce pollen though.
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That is my Cardinal (Asian)… can see some blossoms today. Hope it ripens first fruit this year.
IKKJiro is showing some blossoms today too.
Nakitas Gift, Saijo and Journey hybrid are my last to come out.. buds just now large swolen green.. but not open yet.
TNHunter
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I trust your experience and expertise. Can you help me understand not cut so I can update my mental model? I had internalized that I want to avoid having the tree grow above the damage, since that could draw too much energy from the roots while not returning any to the roots via the cambium. So that’s why I intuitively thought about cutting below damage, above union.
The reason for me not to cut the damage trunk off because that will leave a very short stub and people may accidentally step on it and break off the graft union.
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I guess that explains why people get seeds in their isolated “female” trees. I also read up on some studies that say there are different sexual phenotypes for Asian persimmons, as you describe. I feel like there would be more, since there are “male” that don’t fruit, “male” that do fruit, “female” that don’t self pollinate, yet may be parthenocarpic, and “female” that throw some male flowers. I suppose that the “male” fruiting types are just hermaphroditic or somehow male flowered and parthenocarpic. Like you said, perfect flowers, occasional male flowers, or pure male/ female would be 4 types.
The one abstract I found stated “In the flowering full‐sib families, the amplification of the OGI marker in agreement with the sex phenotype was obtained in 85 plants (89.5%). The segregation of OGI in ‘Huashi 1’ × ‘Luotian Tianshi’ and ‘Huashi 1’ × Male 3 F 1 populations fit a 1 : 1 ratio. Furthermore, high OGI transferability was observed in nine related species. Overall, the results indicated that the OGI locus could be used to distinguish male from female persimmon plants at an early stage. “
Which I think means that, even thought the genotype expression of “male” is about a 1:1 ratio, the phenotypes are only 90% aligned with that, or around the percentage you quoted.
I had not considered the fact that they were hexaploid, and thought that the sex chromosomes were “sticky” and would generally group together more often than not. Definitely is beyond my scope of knowledge, but definitely is not the “80%” male figure thrown around a lot.
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Apologies if this should be in grafting, but in your experience, when is the best time to graft? I grafted onto branches with bud swell about 3 weeks ago (other branches were leafing out), and none took. I’m currently in bloom, so I think the grafts should have leafed out by now.
anyones american persimmons leafing out? i planted one last fall and i havent seen any movement. getting a little worried…
Mine are at least a couple weeks off before persimmons usually start waking up.
I’m just getting first bud swell here in Maryland on my rootstocks. I think they will be graftable this weekend perhaps, its going to warm up a lot soon.
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All of my bare root Asian persimmons trees woke up a month or so late their first year
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Do hybrid persimmons need a lot of chill? I’m wondering if I can grow them in South Texas where I get ~200-250 chill hours.
Continuing on my quest to get H63A growing on this Prok tree. I grafted this chip bud on Prok last spring, as well as a stick. Both took, but the stick barely grew and was aborted over the winter. This chip bud is still alive (bright green cambium when scratched!), but the main bud is dead. What are my odds of getting adventitous buds if I prune right above this chip? I plan to lop as indicated by the red line below.
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Question… so many branches, why not graft H63 onto a main side branch say 5ft off the ground? (and make sure it stays a main side branch so it doesn’t get self-pruned off).
My tree has 3 main angled branches (that i never grafted, debating dong that now but would have to do bark grafts which much thicker than yours).
Not sure if I will , i’m a little scared to do it… here is what it looks like now
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That’s a nice big tree!
Because I tried that the year before and it failed miserably. Also, I decided I want H63A to be the main leader.
Aaand I don’t have any H63A wood handy.
I had my H-63A grafted to a sapling that was doing very well till last fall that I lost it due to a deer problem and broke the graft right at the Union. I just bought another scion so I can re-grafted to another sapling that is been waiting for to be grafted.
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I have growth and can see blossoms on H63A, Barbaras Blush and Prok now.
I stopped at walmart yesterday and Persimonilla (a wild 60c fruiting female) looked like that.
I have 2 wild dv’s in my orchard that are just now about to break bud.
I have a 10 day string of 70s and 80s in the forecast.. Temps are good. I am just waiting for these wild dv’s to come on out a little more.
I am grafting Giboshi (Smiths Best) to one and Kasandra to the other
TNHunter
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This can work well. I have an established DV tree to which I have grafted H63A, Barbra’s Blush, Dollywood, Morris Burton, H-118, and JT-02.
My only caveat is that as a persimmon tree grows, it tends to abort lower branches. You don’t want to have a prize variety on the branch that the tree decides to abort. I think that this risk is greatest when the low branch is shaded. So maybe you can mitigate the risk with good pruning.
Also, you can hedge your bets by grafting each variety to two branches.
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Interesting to see so many people trialling Nikita’s Gift in cold zones. I planted one last spring and it sailed through its first winter without any protection, though I’m only zone 7 so not exactly a fair test. Curious to see how the ones in colder spots come through.
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