Purple reign


#101

One of the main bases for comparison in respect to these mulberries is the humidity levels. Supposedly the M. nigra succumbs to humid areas more than temperature swings and on that basis England and Scotland are pretty similar to average humidities in the dfw area. So if these trees are surviving for ages in London then why not in East Texas. So I am grasping at straws to think that this nigra will survive here in a fairly humid area. Hardiness zones are relatively the same but of course they never take in things like the Texas heat. Yes, it can be brutal and the shifts between flood and drought makes it difficult too.
Katy


#102

I'm not sure just what you're saying. Are you thinking the nigra need humidity or not?

At any rate London is a very mild climate compared to DFW. It almost never gets really hot, cold, or dry in London.

Out here in west Texas most mulberries get frozen back each spring.


#103

The nigras are not supposed to tolerate humid climate.


#104

London has much higher humidity than Dallas http://www.london.climatemps.com/humidity.php but because Dallas is so much hotter the dew points are higher in Dallas http://www.dallas.climatemps.com/humidity.php

London is a very humid place compared to most of the USA. But it's so cool and mild compared to anywhere in TX.

Nigras must tolerate humidity if they do well in London. But cool and humid is much different than hot and humid for many plants.


#105

That is so true and in this case time will tell whether or not I will be tasting nigra berries year after year. It's an experiment that could go either way. :upside_down:


#106

their climates may be different, but considering that the nigras survived 300+ years in england, those trees obviously lived through several extraordinarily cold winters. If severe cold temps are the suspected killers of nigras, it is important to consider how many times in the past ~120 yrs that london was blast-frozen.
And most certain that those centenarians endured several more severe sub-freezing temps before temps were even reliably recorded.


http://www.london-weather.eu/article.370.html

if we are considering texas' summer heat/humidity/dewpoint issues to be the killer of nigras, then there should be folks complaining of their nigras dying in the hottest and most humid days of summer, instead of not leafing out after winter.
i guess we will find out if @k8tpayaso 's unsheltered nigra will survive being grown outdoors after several hot and humid dfw summer days, and if actually survives, we'll find out if it will leaf out after a dfw winter.


#107

Zero weather in England is a lot different than what happens in Texas. Here it can be 70 one day and zero 36 hrs later. That's not going to happen in England. It will be Nov thru April fluctuating temps that take them out in Texas. I've seen -10F in early November in north Texas, the Panhandle. Two yrs in a row with similar weather took out the sugarbeet industry in the early 90s.

Not every yr will be a disaster. But they won't last 100 yrs here, probably not 10.


#108

late frost is another variable. Nigras tend to leaf out later than persimmons and jujubes, so hopefully not much of an issue compared to severe winters and hot and humid summers.

there are three killer scenarios we are anticipating(but hopefully never witness on @k8tpayaso 's nigra! ).
1)if it dies after several hot and humid days in summer.(killed by hot + humid)
2)if it never leafs out after winter next year. (killed by sub-freezing temps)
3)if a late frost is documented and the leafed out mulb dies, or never leafs out at all(killed by freezing when sap just started flowing).


#109

I've got two nigras I'd like to plant outside. But I had to buy 5 plants to get these two. I'd like to taste the fruit before they crook so it will be greenhouse until then. Can I expect what are now new plants to fruit next yr? I've got Noir of Spain and one like @k8tpayaso.

They are both growing pretty nicely in a 20 gal fabric pot right now.


#110

Maybe not...but I definitely won't see it much longer than 10 anyway :flushed:...... and that's selfish of me but see the thread about "Ever wonder what will happen to your fruit trees". I'm more pessimistic about that than I am about whether this tree lives or not.

Texas weather is very fickle but our extremes in east Texas tend to be much more buffered than in the panhandle and far west. Actually our area just 75 miles southeast (not even counting Fort Worth) does not get near the winter storm that Dallas itself does. That being said my surrounding communities were flattened by tornadoes just a month ago and it got within 5 miles of my house. In the whole scheme of things who knows??? I'm just going to dance and sing and eat ice cream and push the zone a bit on this little tree and try not to feel guilty about any of the above. :laughing:🤣:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:


#111

I hope you do! I was surprised at getting fruit but the tree I received was a good sized tree. The fruit is really tiny but at least it is a taste.


#112

how big are they? If they have complex branching(like an old fig) they will probably fruit next year. Our noir of spain took three years to produce quality fruit, and they started as 8" sticks and at ~0.25 " calipers.
20 gal is more than enough for young nigras, even old ones. I have been observing several 8-10 feet tall nigras in 15 gallons being sold by a local nursery here, and they have been fruiting the past two years. And those are really old specimens , considering the branching above the graft. When pulled them out of the pots there wasn't much soil, but mostly roots, as the compost they've used have decomposed altogether.
@k8tpayaso 's is enormous in nigra terms, btw. It is bigger than our now 4 year old noirs. Just like other mulbs, nigras may bear fruit later in the year, although the main crop is typically the first one when they come out of dormancy.


#113

that is good news! TX is too big not to have some variances in climate conditions. Some of you texans even manage to grow mangoes, which says a lot about TX' climate spectrum
http://www.texasgardener.com/currentissue/Mango-Mania.html


#114

...And that is the question that everyone in the Southeast wants answered! I, too, am starting to have doubts about the winter/summer humidity claims so widely broadcast on the web. Maybe the truth has nothing to do with humidity per se, but perhaps their demise is brought about by a parasite or disease that is prevalent in those regions and not Great Britain.


#115

definitely another variable to consider, but currently unbeknownst to 'experts'.

nigras dying in warm weather may indicate infection or infestation. More so than when not leafing out after a frigid winter.


#116

I think there is a lot to the idea that cool and humid is much different than hot and humid. We see it with other fruits. Peach tree short life is prevalent in the southeast. But not in the northeast or even the mid south like KY. Hot and humid equals severe disease, nematode, and insect pressure. England and Scotland are so much cooler than DFW or the Southeast that it's no comparison.

I saw it in the sugarbeet industry. Soil borne diseases were a severe issue in TX but not in MN or ND.


#117

I think the "accepted" limited range of M. nigra in the US (purportedly between zones 7-9) may have more to do with not enough out-of-zoners having tried than any other reason. Here are some explanations:
1. Many Americans have tasted mulberries that are black (mostly albas or hybrids), but very few Americans have tasted the fruit of the black mulberry Morus nigra, a supreme fruit worthy of obsession. It is a class of its own. No other mulberry comes close. I have tried white albas, black albas and Pakistan mulberries. They are all good, but only distant seconds to the sensory experience of a black M. nigra. So few understand what we're fussing about and why we're going out of our way to widen its range.
2. The reason for 1. is because black mulberries have drawbacks: a. They don't travel well and cannot be stored. When picked, they partially burst and stain everything blood red. So they can only be experienced/sold locally when in season (one or two months a year), which means very few of the at large general public have ever experienced the real taste of M. nigra . b. As the literature warns, they are messy. They are messy to eat. They will stain your hands, mouth and clothes. The stain does not come off easily. Best to wear special clothing for picking, and then eat the fruit with a toothpick. They also stain the area around the tree with fallen fruit that is dragged indoors, and purple bird droppings. That in itself will discourage a lot of casual urban growers. None of that will deter a hard core addict like myself (which means I will keep trying in Miami, zone 10b, and if I fail, I will try again!).
3. The literature/nomenclature is and has been confusing. But thanks to a forum like this one, and Livinginawe's website:


things are fortunately clearing up.
4. Many nurseries are selling N. nigras which are not (see 5). So when these false nigras fruit, and the fruits are nothing to go crazy about, that blemishes M. nigra's reputation, and growers give up on trying to grow the real thing.
5. M. nigras do not propagate easily, either by seed or cuttings. Most if not all trees are grafted. That is a serious limiting factor for its expansion. I have dwarf everbearing (a non nigra) which will root so easily from a cutting, all I have to do is hammer a piece of rebar in the ground, drop a cutting in the hole and walk away...
6. M. nigra is painstakingly slow-growing, another strike against it.
7. Claims that it will only grow in certain climates and stringent hardiness zones. Some of these claims are no doubt substantiated and based on experimentation/trial and error . But others may not be and are just waiting to be proven right or wrong.
8. Microclimates are a reality, not a myth. As in real estate, it's all about location. I have a M. alba (? Florida giant) that has not given me one decent fruit in almost 10 years. A cutting from it planted 5 blocks away at my other property has given me decent fruit in its second year. Just because a nigra fails at one location does not mean it will fail throughout the whole region.

Given all of the above, no surprise it is not as widespread as we would like it to be. Be it as it may, if not for pioneering out of zoners, Florida would not be the mango capital of the US (first introduced in 1833) for instance. My aim is to do the same for Morus nigra. So I applaud k8tpayaso and Livinginawe for trying, and I encourage more people to try. It is well worth the effort...


#118

This is what they look like. The smaller plant Noir of Spain just started growing. The larger has grown about 8 inches in maybe 2 weeks. I'm surprised how fast they have taken off. I think I can get 3-4 ft of growth this summer if I continue to push them with water and nitrogen.


#119

These are pictures of my Mulberries.The first one is a Black Beauty from Peaceful Valley and is about the size of fruitnut's larger one in the grow bag.I haven't examined mine too closely,but saw three fruit forming.The tree was probably planted a couple years ago.This is the first time fruiting,so fruitnut should get some by next year. Brady




Pakistan today.I was looking back through this thread and saw in May,2016,this tree had ripening fruit.They are still green now,with the cool weather.The good news is,they are not prematurely dropping.

This is Hidden Springs Nursery's little Noir of Spain.Hopefully that's true.So far,the leaves have the look and feel of a Nigra.

Wellington,also a good producer and I like the flavor.

Silk Hope.This one might be sweeter than Wellington,but the sunnier location may attribute to that.


#120

I hope you are right! As I have stated about their seemingly inability to survive in the Southeast..."I so want someone to prove me wrong". Maybe a monetary reward offered on my website would get a response?