Just wondering if anyone had a theory on why this happens. I have a patch of red raspberries in partial shade (under a very tall tree, so with the angle they probably get about 6-8 hours of sun in the summer and only about 3-4 hours in fall). I’ve no idea as to the variety, but I’m in Zone 5 and they are hardy and thorny.
They typically set fruit twice a year, but I only get fruit in the summer. In the fall, they set fruit in October but the drupes remain small and never ripen. I’ve always wondered why this happens - is it a function of the lack of sunlight? Or do certain varieties just ripen late?
I’ve been thinking about expanding the patch (my garden is very shady so no other better spot for sun, unfortunately) and it would be helpful to know why this patch only fruits once.
Perhaps think about converting that tall tree to a nice pile of wood chips. That’s my best idea, without sun it’s really hard to grow most things. Yes probably expensive but with modern day tree companys it’s a good possibility and maybe the best way to improve your growing areas. I removed two giants this summer and had them converted to very useful wood chips which I can now use to mulch the majority of fruit trees I have, a big savings in my annual water bill will be welcomed. When you live in an area with a short growing season and you want to grow things, you really do need that sun power, not shade!
So convert those tall shades into a valuable commodity!
Dennis
Kent, wa
I wish I could haha! I’ve already taken down as many trees as my husband will let me, and he likes these elms very much. I like fruit and he likes trees.
I’m also not certain that my tree is the problem, it could very well be my neighbour’s trees that are blocking the fall sun, or both.
I agree with poncirusguy. What frostcrystal has is the so-called June-bearing, or floricane fruiting raspberries, which produce their best crop on last year’s canes. Most varieties also bloom again on the new canes in late summer or fall but usually fail to produce ripe fruit on these canes. My floricane raspberries usually produce a few ripe berries in the fall, but not much of a crop.
If you want fall raspberries you need to plant a primocane fruiting variety, which will bloom on the new canes earlier and ripen earlier. These are usually pruned back to the ground at the end of the first season, although they will produce an inferior crop next June if they are not cut back. These are also called fall-bearing raspberries.
small fruit is usually lack of water. Rasp roots are shallow and of course they protect the crown first then the canes…then the leaves… then the final thing is the fruit which may be sacrificed to keep those things as healthy as possible.
Could be other factors unknown such as disease or mites. etc. Or crowns could just be old. Or could be improperly pruned and too many canes taking too much energy with the soil nutrition available.
If a person wants a Fall crop they could cut several feet of row to the ground and enjoy a summer crop on some canes and an earlier Fall crop… to rule out some things.
The OP said they had a patch…which leads to believe that there are too many canes which is likely the cause of it all… likely alot of suckers and runners and spindly canes taking up too much water and nutrients and sacrificing harvest to do so.
I agree it is probably not getting enough sun/energy to have the primocane crop but between the spring/summer/fall of primocane growth and spring/summer of floricane growth, it does get enough to have a floricane summer crop in the 2nd yr
There are late varieties that dont work for z5; I think Heritage is pushing it and anything after it is not a good idea (e.g., crimson night)
raspberries are supposed to be simple; if in a raised bed with good soil and good sun, they are very productive and happy
Clearing the floricanes right after their summer crop will allow more sun for new primocanes and might help; those floricanes are done and wont produce anymore, so the sooner they get removed, the better for everything else
‘Patch’ is probably a misnomer on my part, I do prune these guys, mostly just to keep them inside the bed. So there aren’t a lot of canes. They produce well in summer (July usually) and I usually water them if there’s no rain. Awhile back I tried cutting to the ground in early winter, don’t entirely remember what happened but I want to say that I didn’t get any fruit that year.
The crowns are old though - I got them from a friend’s uncle about 5 years back who was replacing them with another plant, which is why I don’t know the variety.
@rubus_chief Hadn’t been pruning the floricanes after the summer crop, so definitely could try that! I usually leave them to die off on their own and do a single winter prune of the dead stuff.
@vitog I thought that floricane brambles didn’t flower at all in the fall? Wasn’t aware that they produce a small crop then. Always thought I had primocane since there were two crops.
I’ll try pruning off the spent floricanes and the young fall drupes to see if I get better summer fruit.
Some people dont want a floricane crop (summer); floricane fruit is usually smaller and at the bottom2/3rds of the cane, and to keep it simple, each winter they mow everything and just get a fall primocane crop
If you didn’t get a primocane crop when you mowed back, it really sounds like it is not getting enough sun and not sure that cutting back the floricanes would make that much difference (since with no floricanes, primocanes did not previously fruit) but there are other benefits (increases wind between canes and lessens disease potential
I disagree about not enough light. Sounds like summer bearing type. If it fruits in the summer, it should fruit in the fall. Or it is a late ripening primeocane fruiting. Add another cultivar that fruits early in fall like Himbo Top. Himbo also produces a decent summer crop too.
I have raspberries in 3 hours light and they fruit just fine. Not as good as my full sun berries but decent all the same.
I have one patch that gets no direct light in the fall and fruits just fine. They are next to my house on the north side of my two story house. Best place for honeyberries too!
I have noticed this with raspberries here in my southern TN location.
Established (double cropping) raspberry canes (been in the same spot 2-3) years min…
Will bloom and produce fruits earlier in the fall… even late Aug, early Sept here…
But rootshoots that i transplant in the spring often start blooming and fruiting a good month or more later.
I had a fall gold this year that was a new root shoot in the spring… it came up in a good location… did not have to relocate it… i tipped it early august and it made 3 nice fruiting laterals 3 ft long… they had just started blooming when we got 3 nights in a row of frost. No fall golds this year.
To give a better idea of the microclimate, I have several other berries around these particular raspberry plants. I get strawberries and honeyberry (Indigo Gem) in June; gooseberry, honeyberry (Aurora) and raspberries in July.
@Drew51 That’s definitely encouraging to know that you have low sun brambles and it’s working out well for you!
@TNHunter I did think that age was the culprit at first, but I planted these 5 years ago and they’re quite well-established by now (I would hope, lol).
the good thing is you are getting a nice floricane crop
why is the primocane crop weak? it may not be a primocane, it may be a late primocane which doesnt work in z5 with your early frost date, and it is probably not getting enough sun
since the floricane crop is nice, do NOT mow back in winter; and in the winter, if there is a small primocane undeveloped fruit set on the top 1/3 of canes, you can cut this off when dormant (top 1/3 rd of primocane) and it will help the following summer crop
I have seen encore do this. Prelude should be considered primocane it sets a decent fall crop. The flavor is strong. Prelude makes the best ever raspberry syrup.
it seems like a primocane 1st and a floricane 2nd but both crops are great and it tastes great also, good with Phythophthora, albeit on the smaller side
(both its parent were primocanes Durham x September)
What are the temps when they are trying to ripen up in the fall? I notice that once my temps drop in the fall, (which happens right in the middle of my second cropping), the raspberry ripening slows down dramatically. If I need to harvest every 1-2 days in late summer / early fall, it can be 7-10 days in the late fall once it has started to cool down between ripe raspberries
II wonder if your Wisconsin temps are slowing down the ripening too early that they just never finish?
That could be very likely. Most of mine finish but a pink raspberry I bred and I call Irene has a very late primo cane crop. I get a few berries but most do not ripen here in 6b (was 5b then 6a this year 6b) southeast Michigan.
That could definitely be it, and the frost could be zapping them before they fully ripen (we get first frost here around October). They got pretty large one November a year or so ago, but at that point there’s no avoiding a hard frost. I was actually more wondering why they don’t start setting fruit earlier, as most raspberries I see around here start setting around August/September.
@Drew51 Didn’t realize the zone hardiness map has been updated! I wonder if we’ve changed zone.
