Regionally suited pawpaw

I have heard that pawpaws are fairly specific in terms of what region they do well in. This was said by a Canadian, so it may have been more about taking them northwards than southwards. I live in Georgia and am interested in grafting some of the Red Fern Farms varieties, which look to be progeny of Shenandoah and Susquehanna, both of which are from Kentucky. I would also probably buy rootstocks from the Kentucky Division of Forestry. (Georgia definitely doesn’t offer pawpaws, nor does Tennessee. Not sure about others closer than Kentucky.) Do you guys have thoughts about if I would see any problems planting them here?
I am also considering buying crossed seeds of the mentioned varieties from Red Fern Farms and trying to find a good variety myself if you guys advise against grafting those varieties. If I do that, what sort of traits should I look for that would indicate how well-suited an individual is to my climate? Ideally, something that I can notice before they are full sized and need to be in the ground somewhere.

You may want to update your profile to indicate where “here” is located

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I mentioned Georgia in the post. Specifically, I am just north of Atlanta in Norcross. I’m pretty much on the border between zones 7B and 8A, depending on the map you use.

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I would think most varieties will do fine. I have pawpaw’s growing in 8b SC below Augusta.

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@NateConn i agree with beetree- I wouldn’t overthink it and just plant what you want based on available info.
There’s just not a lot known about which varieties do best at which latitudes, and really I doubt there is significant variation.
It would stand to reason that seedlings from local wild trees would be reasonably adapted to your climate, but if the fruit quality is poor, no sense in planting those seeds.
You could use local seeds as rootstock, however, and possibly confer a slight advantage to the grafted top.
Also Shenandoah and Susquehanna didn’t originate in Kentucky, so don’t put stock in that.
Good luck! Any pawpaw planted is a good thing :heart_eyes:

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Also to some of your other questions-
If planting seeds from Red Fern or anywhere else, just look for vigor initially. That’s about all you can tell in the first year or so.
Secondarily, look for fungal resistance. No pawpaw is likely to be immune but some definitely are more resistant. Phyllosticta and other diseases can get out of hand in an orchard so resistance is very important in my book. (KSU is starting to evaluate their advanced selections based in part on this)

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Where did they originate? I tried to find that out online, and the best I can see is that Neal Peterson developed it, and he seems to be based in Kentucky.

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Naw, Neal was and is based in West Virginia. He did his work up in that area, including Maryland.
Here’s where he got his material. Specific geographic locations are not listed but I’m pretty sure very little if any of his seed came from Kentucky.
Susquehanna is one of the accessions from Blandy Experimental Farm in Virginia.
Shenandoah is an Overleese seedling but where exactly the specific seed came from only Neal would know. Overleese itself is from Indiana.
Capture

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I’m also in 7b, West Georgia, and I’m doing something similar to you @NateConn. I planted a bunch of seed from different sources-seeds from some Peterson varieties, seeds from unknown but supposedly named varieties, seeds from @KYnuttrees, because despite spending a lot of time in the woods I never see PawPaws here in the wild except along rivers or streams, in mostly shade. I figured some seedlings would be better adapted to this climate and soil than others, which has proved to be true. There have been huge variations, with some seedlings growing three or four times as fast as others in very similar growing conditions. Last year, 4 years after planting, I got my first harvest (one whole fruit) and this year a 700% increase (7 fruit).

Here’s some things I’ve learned. In our climate you need to have irrigation the first few years, and maybe permanently. None needed this year because of all the rain. In this area ambrosia beetles are a serious problem in the spring -they’ve killed everything above ground for 3 trees that appeared absolutely healthy. I’ll be spraying all my young trees with a pyrethroid and sticker early next spring year and probably every week for 7 or 8 weeks. The healthiest of trees will throw out all kinds of root suckers, as my killed trees have done, and as my most vigorous one that wasn’t hit by the ambrosia beetles. Phyllosticta and other diseases haven’t shown up on my trees yet-I’ve got my fingers crossed.

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Hi Nate! I have Canopus and Asterion grafted thanks to a fellow forum member who shared them with me. I am on the lookout for a few other Red Fern cultivars too. I agree with the above advice on vigor. To that end, I’d recommend KSU Chapell and Mango to begin your collection. I’ve heard Regulus and Nyomi’s Delicious exhibit decent vigor as well. Good luck!

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I definitely read West Virginia on his website, and somehow I internalized that as Kentucky… Lol. Similar latitude though.

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NateConn
I grew up in Lee Co., AL right across the Chattahoochee from Columbus GA, on what was the 7/8 interface 30 yrs ago. Pawpaws were everywhere along creeks/streams there. I never knowingly saw a pawpaw until I was in my mid-late 30s, having lived in TN, MO, and now KY… but once someone identified one for me, I realized I’d been seeing the trees all my life… just no fruits! On subsequent trips home to AL, I still almost never found a fruit on those understory A.triloba trees along the creeks, but small-flowered pawpaw, A.parviflora, typically growing in the open on hillsides, would be heavily festooned with little thumb-sized seedy fruits all along their branches.

IMO, planting seed/seedlings of superior named-parentage is a good way to go… whether you graft onto them or let them grow to fruiting age on their own. I’ve grafted containerized seedlings, then outplanted them, and most seem to have scion decline and die-out within just a few years, with the rootstock regrowing to replace them. But… I also have a number of named-parentage trees that are of bearing age, with branches of named-varieties grafted in here and there, and they seem to be persisting better than when they were the entire ‘top’.
The late John H. Gordon opined that if he’d been 30 years younger and starting over, for outplanted pawpaws, he’d opt for seedlings of named varieties - he espoused selecting those with larger leaves - rather than grafted varieties. For example… SAA Overleese and SAA Zimmerman, among others, are some of his selections from named-parentage seedlings (SAA= Saved As ‘A’)

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Thanks Lucky, all that was great info! The leaf statement was interesting, and very useful since it can be detected very early on in life. Do you know why he said that having big leaves was good to select for, i.e. what useful trait it is correlated with?

IDK, Nate. I presume it was based on his own personal observations of performance.

No matter where you are, the chances of getting a seedling that’s better than the cultivated parents is quite low. As good, probably close to 50% (though you might not get the characteristic you want, Shenandoah though mild can generate strong tasting progeny). As time goes on, it get’s harder and harder to introduce a cultivar because others will have already done so. The bar keeps getting higher.

Since you’re in the south, you might want to give Ron Powell, president of pawpaw growers association and organizer of Ohio pawpaw festival), a buzz or shoot him an email. He’s quite familiar with which cultivars do better north vs south. Rappahannock is one that does better south. So does Sweet Alice, if I recall correctly.

I’ve never been told anything to suggest that leaf size is any indicator of any fruiting characteristic or tree habit, at least nothing from Ken or Neal.

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