lordkiwi:
Thank you for the excellent link- there is a lot more at the “Uncommon Fruit” website than meets the eye. I took your suggestion and contacted Mr. Dale Secher, and I will let you know anything I might learn from him.
Thanks again for the excellent suggestion- I sincerely appreciate it!
Russ
VSOP:
Thank you very much for taking the time to share Mr. Purvis’s contact information with me, and also your experiences in working with him. I have contacted Bob, and I sincerely appreciate the lead!
Thanks again, and good luck to you this year as well!
Sincerely,
Russ
Russ- I just saw your reply after I got your PM. In the future, be sure to hit “reply” directly under a person’s post instead of the general reply at the bottom of the screen- that way the person (me in this case) will receive a notification that you have responded and we can do the same. Otherwise it may go unread, like this almost did. Hope that helps and makes sense.
Anyway, no, I have not ever tried those bloom delaying sprays. The general consensus around here is that they don’t work and/or would offer little if any protection. That being said, I don’t think a lot of people have tried them either so I think everyone is just sort of assuming they wouldn’t work. I do so many sprays each year that I don’t want to add one unless I’m darn sure it will help. As for “cultural”, most of the suggestions I’ve seen for delaying bloom times just sound like old wives tales, so I haven’t done any of those either. But I’m open to suggestions if you have any! 
My variety list desperately needs to be updated. I have added about 30 trees since that list, so the best thing to do is just drop by, take a look, and we can talk about what little I know about them. ALso, if you are interested, there are a few commercial peach orchards in this area (all less than 500 trees) if you want to see them some time as well and perhaps talk to their owners- though to be honest I’ve been a little disappointed in their level of helpfulness. Not sure if they fear competition or if its just a job for them and they have lost the passion of sharing with others.
I applaud your interest in stone fruits. As you will see, that is by far my favorite as well. And from a marketing perspective, I think there is a lot of potential there since so few people sell stone fruits at farmers markets in our area. The one exception is peaches, and I’m always amazed at the prices people get for fresh grown peaches.
Get back to me on when you want to get together and we’ll make it happen.
Yea…you believe it. I’ve seen the space you have left. Tell your wife what you have to, but don’t try to fool us. I think I’ll be sending you your quote every spring…right after you report what all you are going to order that year.
Welcome Russ
I’m in Climate zone 7B and I grow and sell a little over 1 acre of peaches. The best advice I can offer is to seek out the experts from your local university and visit all commercial growers in your area. See what varieties they grow and what rootstocks they use. The alternative is to run your own trials. Its a lot faster and a lot cheaper to start with stuff that is known to work in your location. You can also get into production faster if your goal is to sell fruit on some scale.
In NC I’m fortunate to have a major university in my state (NCSU) which has done a lot of research that I rely on. It may be useful for your area. I have not see the UK research, but I expect it will save you a lot of time and money! Site selection is very import and is discussed in some detail in the university publications.
Well, anything’s possible, but I’d like to hope I’m done with trees. But, I will say I prob will add some more strawberry and raspberry plants. And perhaps some blackberries.
I believe I put more fruit trees/plants in the ground this year than last year. It’s kinda wore me out, what with us also trying to get our veggies started too. Plus, I’m now mowing the upper and lower orchards, so that adds another half acre to my mowing territory. So, more work there.
Just because I have at least two open acres, doesn’t mean I have to fill it up with trees! Must.exercise.restraint.
I see that Chickasaw plums have been recommended as rootstocks, but they’re also fruit trees in their own right. There are a few selected cultivars, like Guthrie and NC McKibbon, that are reputed to have better fruit than most. I planted them a couple of years ago here in zone 7b Georgia, and they’re doing very well, but no fruit yet.
A few plums have been bred for the muggy, disease-prone southeast. I planted Ruby Queen plum and Spring Satin plumcot this year, so nothing to report yet. Beware of all those tempting west-coast bred stone fruits of course.
Just Fruits and Exotics is a nursery with a nice selection for the southeast.
Litsinger, welcome to the forum. as you have discovered there is a lot of experience here.
I’m in middle Tennessee and about 1 zone warmer but in the big picture we share the same challenges. I would have to echo what cityman said about varieties to grow and insects are a bigger problem than frost. I can’t explain why I rarely loose blossoms to frost, we get plenty of frost around bloom time. I’m on flat low land at the base of a big hill. That should be as bad as it gets. If you can plant on a north or east facing slope that will delay blooming. As previously stated paint the trunks white. If nothing else it will help with sun scald. Since you will have a densely planted orchard stay with disease resistant varieties. Also learn to graft it will open up a lot of options for varieties. Give apricots and j plums a try, there worth it. My soil is heavy clay with rock near the surface. I use red plum (prunis cerasifera). It accepts j plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, and possibly e plums. I doing a trial with it on an e plum, too early to know.
Well I hope I was a help and not just rambling. Goodluck.
Russ
Had a few more thoughts when I was on the tractor spraying my peaches. Spraying is not enjoyable!
In order to produce fruit you can sell at the farmers market, peaches are going to require a lot of spray. A typical commercial spray program in a warm, moist climate is around 10 times or more. If the fruit is for personal consumption, you can get by with a lot less.
Even on a good site expect to loose a significant portion of your peach crop 1 out of 5 years. In a frost pocket, the results will be a worse. I would not plant peaches unless the elevation of the proposed orchard is at least as high as the surrounding land.
A number of good high chill peaches exist which will help with the frost/freeze problem, but its tough to find good high chill hour peaches to fill every ripening window. Contender is one of the very best at 1050 chill hours. Plan on about 8 different variety of peaches to have ripe peaches from early season until late
Blueberries and Blackberries get clobbered by frost and freeze less often than peaches. They also require a lot less spray than peaches for both disease and insects Figure about 1/3 or less of that required for peaches. Before SWD we never had to spray our black or blueberries. Blackberries go into full production sooner than peaches. Peaches go into full production sooner than blueberries. Using typical spacing it cost less money to plant a given size area of peaches compared to blackberry or blueberry.
I would disagree with that, sort of, or partially anyway. You have to know which ones work. Not a lot have been tested, but some for sure work. Last year my Michigan bred PF Lucky 13 lost all it’s fruit buds to late freezes. But my Zaiger Arctic Glo nectarine, and Spice Zee Nectaplum bore plenty of fruit. In general I do agree with you. Start with proven trees for your area. You can experiment later.
There has been quite a bit of discussion on the forum about KDL. I have used it and am not a proponent of it. I also know Bob Purvis. He came to my house once. He is the biggest advocate for KDL. He really believes it helps, but when I talked with him about it, he hadn’t tested it fairly. He simply sprayed it on all his trees and said it protected his blooms during various cold events. In other words, he never ran a control group.
I’ve tried it (also without using a control group) and it I received the same amount of damage I would have expected had I not sprayed it.
I still have some left and intend to at some point do a better constructed experiment to test it one more time. The supposed mechanism of how it protects flowers doesn’t make horticultural sense to me, which is another reason I’m skeptical.
Spraying urea near leaf drop at 50 lbs. per acre is supposed to increase winter hardiness and delay bloom a little.
Ethephon isn’t labeled for peaches, but it does work to delay bloom on them. Growers back East use it some. I think a peach label was never pursued because of the narrow margin of effectiveness and crop damage. In other words the effective rate is only somewhat lower than the rate which will kill all the fruit buds. Typically ag chemical companies don’t like to take on that kind of liability because of potential lawsuits.
Should you choose to use it, be careful it’s one of the few ag chemicals which carries a DANGER signal word. I don’t think UPS will ship it because it’s classified as a Hazardous Material. Hazardous Materials have to be shipped by Motor Freight.
I live close to you in missouri, ime on crowley’s ridge between bell city and advance, look on the map and you will see the area ime talking about. Basically due west of you. You can grow most things if you are willing to use a spray schedule. There is a southern fs north of you in illinois that sells the midwest spray schedule, very handy to have, walks you through what to spray and the timing for various pests and diseases. A friend of mine about 5 miles from me has had a small commercial orchard there since the late 70s. He grows about 25 to 30 different peach varieties many Japanese plum varieties, European plums nectarines, the 5 pluot varieties that adams county nursery sells, apricots, sweet cherries, pears and apples. The worst for us is apricots of course. Most years we get a small crop here, some years like last year big crop and every few years like this year no apricots. Peaches her are actually quite reliable most years, sometimes late frost will reduce the crop, but pretty rare to have a complete failure. In our area bugs and diseases are the problem, no spray no crop.
blueberrythrill:
Thank you for the kind welcome and the good advice. Our State Research Orchard has been very helpful and I can’t say enough good things about them. That said, they have said if we want to grow apricots and cherries, we will have to seek out advice for others as they have not had a lot of recent experience with these families.
One thing seems certain- location matters. What works great in one area may not translate to another area, even in the same climate zone. For this reason (among many others), I am grateful to have found this forum where I can learn from those who are successfully growing various stone fruits, and find what has worked for them!
Thanks again for sharing your insight, and have a great day!
Russ
TheLoud:
Thank you very much for your response and good advice- I really appreciate it!
It seems like the AU series plums have specifically been bred for our muggy climate and early warm-ups followed by late frosts- have you had any experience with those?
I can appreciate your perspective about the west coast varieties- I’ve been told that it is generally better to buy northern cultivars and plant varieties that are hardy to a zone north of your locale.
Thank you also for the recommendation of Just Fruits and Exotics- to their credit, when I spoke with them they advised me to contact nurseries closer to home i.e. Hidden Springs due to the fact that their focus is zones 8 - 10.
Thanks again for your helpful input- I really appreciate it!
Russ
Graftman:
Thank you for your helpful feedback. It is encouraging to hear that you have been getting good fruit set, even after getting hit with some of the late freeze events that are so comment to our area.
I appreciate your advice about grafting too- it seems apparent to me after thinking about your comment that without that ability first-hand (or at least having a good friend who owes you a favor), you’re at the mercy of the nursery to determine what rootstocks are available to you.
You might be on to something with the cerasifera- I will be interested to hear how it does for you with the european plums.
Thanks again for the help and input- I appreciate it!
Russ
Drew51:
Thank you for your input- I am glad to hear that you have had some success with the inter-specifics. Most everyone I have spoken with has indicated that at best you would be constantly doing heroic measures to produce fruit and at worst would never see the trees fruit, so it is good to know that they can produce fruit in places other than the San Joaquin valley.
When you chose your interspecifics, what did you use as your primary criteria? I.e. did you focus in on chill hours, bloom dates, a combination of the two?
Thank you for your input- I am grateful.
Russ
Olpea:
Good advice…again. As I’ll readily admit, I have no first-hand experience with any of this, and my understanding at this point is strictly based on what I have read or been told by others who are growing fruit, so I am grateful for the opportunities to hear about what works and what doesn’t from those who have already, “been there and done that.”
It seems prudent to me to focus on the fundamentals first, such as selecting both fruit families and cultivars which are inherently best-equipped to thrive in your specific climate, and only then look at other prospects for delaying bloom and or fighting-off disease, knowing that these are all part of the overall equation for successfully growing fruit.
I again appreciate you sharing your insights- I am grateful.
Russ
Jwsemo:
Great to hear from you! You truly are almost in my backyard. I looked up the area where you are located, and I suppose that the ridge you live on affords you some advantage in terms of delaying bloom?
I took your advice and called Southern FS- they put me in touch with the Cobdin store and those guys were real helpful. Thank you for the lead on this.
I also called Adams County Nursery and am awaiting a call back from their horticulturalist to get his take on what would be best for our area, though it sounds like you all might have a pretty good handle on this already?
I appreciate your perspective concerning spraying- if you don’t mind me asking, did you start out with a more organic approach only to move to increasing spraying regularity?
Thanks again for sharing your input- if you don’t mind, I might stop by your place the next time I’m headed to Sikeston or Cape Girardeau (I would touch base with you first).
Thanks again for your input- I sincerely appreciate it!
Russ
thecityman:
Thank you again for all your help and feedback. I apologize for my delay in reply as I was “gated” at 19 responses on my first day on the job here
As I mentioned, all my understanding is strictly academic at this point so I have little to offer in terms of actual experience. I have read several inputs from folks (mainly grape growers) who swear by KDL to delay bloom - maybe in the next several years I will be fortunate enough to have the opportunity to try it on for size.
My experience contacting commercial peach tree growers has been similar to yours, though I have had great success learning from several commercial apple growers in the region. While they are all very polite, I get the sense they think I am trying to “pick their pocket” so to speak. This is one of the many reasons I am grateful for this forum.
I will PM you back about coming down for a visit, and I sincerely appreciate you affording me the opportunity!
Sincerely, Russ
Actually neither. As some I have is low chill, but here it acts like high chill. Most do not! I base it on what others have tested. If you go to Adams County Nursery, they sell Zaiger fruit, not just inter-specifics, which most do not work. They have peaches and nects that work here from Zaiger.
For pluots Flavor Grenade seems to work here, and it is a good one too. Spring Satin is a plum-cot non-zaiger interspeciific worth trying.
This year Flavor Supreme, F. King, F. Queen, and Dapple Dandy all have set fruit well for me. None are great choices, but some years they work, this is a working year. Flavor Supreme is probably the best pluot, although many new ones come out all the time. The biggest problem is fungal disease not in California, so they can’t test for resistance on something that’s not there. This year they probably got hit themselves as rain in CA has been extreme. Maybe they will focus more on this.
All interspecifics are hardy enough to grow here. My input about Spice Zee Nectaplum made them change the description to include working in colder zones although it is a low chill fruit.
Someone mentioned Just Fruits & Exotics. To me they offer a lot of low chill that may not work in KY. I don’t see much difference between Florida and CA cultivars. Except the Florida ones work better in humid areas.
I have had bad advice even from the experts, so I tend to like the school of hard knocks. Also my specialty is tropical and sub tropical. Which I have been growing for over 40 years. I also like to breed stone fruit, and brambles as a hobby. On a very small scale. A hobby within a hobby! I crossed Arctic Glo nectarine which ripens the first week of August with Indian Free peach which ripens the first week of October. Hoping for a peach (a nectarine is a fuzzless peach, fuzz is dominant, so cross will be a peach). Hoping for red fleshed peach that ripens in-between these two. I’m growing three seedlings out. I love the red fleshed peaches.
Good luck, you’re getting a lot of excellent advice. keep us updated on what you do, and have done.
If you do try interpsecifics, ask about them before you buy anything.
First I would concentrate on known to work cultivars, later you can experiment with interspecifics, Florida, and west coast stone fruit.