Surfactant before surround experiment: i like it

I have been thinking all winter about using a coat of surfactant, letting it fully dry, then beginning the coats of Surround.
Mixing them seems to impede the surround from what i have read.
My thought was that only the first layer of surfactant and surround would be a bit firm and not so ‘flaky’ and bug-annoying.

Some pics for comparison. First pic is the surfactant/one layer of surround.

The other picture is one layer of surround only.

I found that the surf. base seemed to have less runoff. It was more evenly distributed. I think that it put me one spray ahead.

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I have always used surround with a surfactant mixed in same solution. My first application typically runs off with very little sticking, so I go back three consecutive applications, allowing some dry time in between. After the third every fruit is completely white.
I would like to better understand your trial. If I understand you the first pic is showing surfactant only in your applicator, allow some drying time, and then you use only surround without mixing in a surfactant? Is that what you mean?
Then your second pic is one layer of surround only without a surfactant? Is that what you mean?
Dennis
Kent, wa

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Yes, the pics are just as you stated. :+1:t2:

Instead of using a surfactant you could try using a dispersant. The purpose of a dispersant is literally to disperse the particles in a suspension/emulsion. If I were going to do the experiment I would start with about a half teaspoon/gallon of a good quality hair conditioner like Kirkland Signature Moisture Conditioner. Mix it directly with the Surround. Bracket increments in half-teaspoon increments until you don’t see any further improvement in dispersal of the Surround.

The downside of using a dispersant is that it increases the potential for rain-washing. Layering on additional Surround without using the dispersant would help that, and the layering should proceed more uniformly with a well-dispersed base layer.

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By surfactant I’m thinking you are using what is also called a spreader/sticker? I can see the logic, and it does seem to make for a better hold on the first Surround spray.

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:+1:t2:That’s been my approach, figuring that subsequent plain surround layers will still flake. I saw some CM and PC hits, i really laid it on thick today snd am topping off tomorrow.
I will also research dispersant uses as well.

Yes, i didnt buy Nufilm i bought the southern ag version sticker/spreader (i like their products)

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I’ve heard that nufilm mixed with surround is a disaster to wash off fruit.

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I hope not!

On each Surround bag, it has a warning to NOT use sticker with it. Nufilm is a sticker/spreader. Once I accidentally mixed Nufilm in Surround. It stuck to fruit esp peaches and apricots so well that I ended up eating a lot of clay that year. I learned my lesson.

It was impossible to rub Surround with sticker off fruit completely. You would end up bruising the fruit. (it is already hard enough to rub Surround without sticker off fruit). That’s why the warning is there.

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I’ve used fish oil based sticker and that was not washable. I’m with Reg and I think it’s better to avoid mixing surround with anything, except maybe another powder.

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Follow up: i prepped trees with sticker in evening and sprayed in am; i saw that the enhanced surround deposition no longer happened. Seems to work only when the sticker is freshly applied.

My next experiment is to bust out my wagner paint sprayer and go for ultra thick one-coat spray

Why I thought (hope) layering might prevent the concreted mess. Avoiding having the particles in a solution.
I will follow it up later down the road. :sunglasses:

I like your creativity.

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Those ***damn bugs inspire us!