Two "species" of Morus nigra mulberry?


#161

The New growing season begin! These two was inside. I have another six planted outside last fall - still dormant (and alive I hope)
Nigra-19-03


#162

I wanted to revisit this. Yes the hardened stem I guess is from age. One thing I was thinking of that might help is using rainwater. I forget about this but I only use rainwater for indoor plants and I see mineral stains on your perlite, so thinking that you should try spring water or water without chlorine, and florine or a high pH. .

I’m out of rainwater at the moment, but as soon as it rains I’m good, So only occasionally use city water. i have to right now.


#163

your babies have the characteristics of true nigras @pileta and @Drew51 . And if some of those turn out to be male, and please forgive me if it sounds like ill will, that i actually wish that some will be. Reason being is that nurseries/importers never really bothered obtaining budwood from male nigras for the usa market, so virtually all nigras in america are female. And this equates to zero genetic diversity since there will never be cross pollination, unless there’s that very unlikely chance of a bud sport developing on someones female nigra tree and the sport actually has radically different characteristics from the mother plant.

on the other hand, having males around may also spell trouble, or at the least, be a hassle. What i mean is that all my nigra trees are ‘virgins’ ( there aren’t any males to fertilize and produce viable seed), which perhaps explains why all the berries they produce are conveniently seedless. If someone should start a nigra cross-breeding experiment in our neighborhood by raising male and female nigras, that someone could perhaps transform our seedless berries into seeded ones.

and if this should happen to a litigious party, it could result in a most novel agricultural lawsuit :grin:


#164

Pileta is not from the states. I want a male too. I’m not in a location nigra can thrive. I can keep it alive but it may not be something I keep in the long run.


#165

oh, i didnt realize, thanks for pointing it out. Well i guess you and others growing nigras(in usa) from seed could pioneer it here.


#166

Well scion will be available too to any who want to mess up their neighborhood!
I want to try and cross breed it.I need every species of decent mulberry I can find to try.
Like Kokuso Korean (Morus latifolia). I think I have some scion here. I may need scion in the future Some others like Gerardi (Morus macroura) may be able to cross with nigra? Doesn’t coat anything to try, and that is if I get a male tree?


#167

i see you’re in Michigan, it does not seem feasible a place to grow nigra’s, but hey-- never say never! :slightly_smiling_face:
And if you haven’t corresponded with another nigra grower in Michigan, @Chills actually got his nigra to fruit in your home state! He’s had his for more than five years, if remember it right.


#168

I’d love to have some scionwood at a future date! Male/Female, doesn’t matter.

Nigra does well in our area.


#169

And what is the likelihood that the pollinated fruits will be bigger or even better (like Persimmons)? Is there any information?


#170

I’ve got the Kokuso Korean and it’s a great Berry. Want cuttings of this one too?

Scott


#171

Yes for sure! Thanks! I forgot you had this. I plan to graft it. So harvest soon if possible.
Awesome!! I’m really hoping one of these species or sub-species can accept nigra pollen to make a hybrid that is hardy enough to grow here. Not even sure I will even have a chance to try?
Update on the nigra seedlings, I’m seeing growth everyday, the things are taking off!!


#172

Sure, just remind me. Even though nigra grows slow, it’s still a mulberry so it won’t be that long!

No, why I say I may not keep them. But I have fig trees here for years that fruit and produce every year. I keep them in containers. I was reading up on Mulberry in containers and the plants just kinda dwarf out and produce and adapt well to container culture. this is good news for me with these marginally hardy mulberries. I also have Wacissa and Shangri La which are rated to zone 7. (I’m in 5b/6a) and I keep them in my garage where the low is 25F all winter.Where the nigra’s will be next winter.
@Chills, you mentioned interest in Shangri La, well it had dieback even in the garage, so it might not be the best. It sure is a large leaved mulberry though. Beautiful plant!
I also have Wacissa, it grew more, has no dieback and looks perfect right now. bet that one could make it, and the plant also is from a rooted cutting. I got 3 Shangri La’s to root and 2 Wacissa’s to root too. I gave away all but one of each.


#173

I would have argued profusely against the idea that a 308 chromosome mulberry (Morus nigra) could possibly cross with a 28 chromosome mulberry (most other mulberries…even Gerardi and Dwarf Everbearing), but a nurseryman in Belgium may be about to prove me wrong. He claims to have crossed a male Morus nigra with a female Pakistan (28 chromosome Morus macroura). His nigra looking plant is being tissue culture grown by a university there and then they will do chromosome counting on root tip tissue. If they count 168 chromosomes it will mean proof of a hybrid…I’m keeping my fingers crossed because it may possibly be more disease resistant. The seed grown hybrid fruited in four years and is said to be very good tasting. He has been unsuccessful with nigra x alba crosses, or when the mother was a Morus nigra.
So don’t listen to naysayers like me, and go for it!


#174

LOL! I do realize that chances are better that Oz Monkeys will fly out of my butt than me making a good cross. Trying involves doing nothing except looking for seed. If I even get a male!?
I will introduce them, and pretty up the female, give her a professional prune, add a sparkly name tag, and hope things go well :slight_smile:


#175

i have no information on this as our nigras all bear via ‘immaculate conception’, haha

kidding aside, the sweetest seeded watermelons are typically sweeter and richer in flavor and have deeper pulp coloration than the best seedless ones, so who knows? perhaps a nigra with seeds also results in intensified berry quality(even though i think our seedless nigras are already hard to beat-- as many naive tasters actually report the flavor ‘blazing a trail down their throats like red wine’ and lingers long after they’ve eaten them).

speaking of ‘neigh’ and chromosoma # differences , well, a horse went for it with a mule and produced offspring !


#176

Also figs that are pollinated are bigger, sweeter more flavorful. Including common figs.


#177

oh yes, and figs are in the same family moraceae as muberries!


#178

@jujubemulberry, you’re on the money on this one!!! My conviction is that the benefits of such an occurrence will outweigh the risks by a far stretch…I’ve eaten seeded M. nigra berries my entire childhood. They’re not bothersome at all. The seeds are tiny, and give the eating experience a little crunch, like eating ripe figs. The benefits however is the creation of new American varieties like Noir de Miami for instance one day in the future :wink:.


#179

you betcha! introducing male nigras into the americas is 100% “uncharted waters” with may equate to intriguing scenarios. And yes, blackberry seeds, and even guava seeds, don’t bother me at all( i have hyena molars :grin:), so seeded nigras won’t be a problem. Outside of bio-engineering techniques, it is practically impossible to produce new cultivars if we don’t propagate by seed.

and from a mulberry’s perspective, quite certain the female nigras in usa have been yearning for some biological interlude-- heck they have been celibate and lovelorn for decades lol


#180

Update for my last photo - two indoor nigras:

Nigra-2018-03