Just put the wide plow point on the subsoiler a few minutes ago but camera lost power. I will try and get a picture today, maybe Monday. I use a small frame garden tractor for this application, but used it on my old machines up to 56hp too. It will layoff a row real pretty. You can get the 16" sharp point most anywhere.
I need to read your posts again, appears you don’t have a tractor?
If the tree is in a pot, let’s say 10inch diameter and 10 inches depth of dirt/roots. I’ll dig a 10 inch hole 5 inches deep. Put the tree on the hole, then pile up 5 inches of dirt above ground 2-3 feet around the tree, level with the top of the root ball/potted soil. I’m using the local clay soil for everything.
This prevents water from saturating the roots while the tree grows into the undisturbed native soil at it’s own pace.
Depending on the area and how I want the elevations to ultimately work out, I might also simply remove the grass in a 3-ft circle, plot the tree down in the middle of the circle, and pile up dirt around it. No hole at all, just a t post to keep the tree stable while the roots grow down and into the ground.
The higher I can keep the graft, the better.
No. No tractor.
Yes. People use 8N’s to dig holes with the post hole digger. You just need to make sure the post hole digger has the option to hook up to a category 1 three point. Most post hole diggers will do that.
8N’s are only rated at something like 23 hp, but that’s enough. The reason is that the pto only turns at 540 rpm, and the post hole digger gears it down even more.
I’ve never owned an 8N, but have a relative who has. He loved his little 8N. They are simple and dependable tractors. I’ve worked on his. Easy to work on. Not very expensive to buy. Most people convert them to 12v electrical systems, when they purchase them. That’s also easy to do, if you get one which hasn’t already been converted from 6v to 12v.
They sold half a million of those little tractors. My guess is that most of them are still in service. Aftermarket parts are readily available.
They also have little plows which fit on the back. It’s a little two bottom Dearborn plow. I bought one once for 20 bucks. I think they are quite a bit more expensive now, as these little tractors and implements have caught a second wind in popularity. You could probably get a nice little Dearborn plow for a few hundred dollars. Just make sure they have all the parts and aren’t sprung.
Ford Dearborn also made a disc plow for the 8N. A disc plow can be used to build terraces.
You want to be careful if you choose to plow with an 8N. Because they are so small, if the plow gets stuck on a big rock, it will easily flip the tractor over on top of the operator. Same thing if your mower gets caught on a big rock or hidden stump.
The biggest disadvantage of old tractors like 8N is they don’t have live pto or live hydraulics. What that means is that the pto or hydraulics only work with the clutch disengaged (i.e. you have to let your foot off the clutch to make the pto or 3 point lift to work). You can still dig holes just fine. You simply put the transmission in neutral, engage the pto lever and let the clutch out.
The biggest complaint about using post hole diggers with 8N’s is that since the 3 pt. lift only works with the clutch disengaged, the pto is spinning when you lift the 3 pt. That means your dirt goes flinging everywhere as you lift out the post hole digger.
Actually, that’s not quite right, but close. The pto doesn’t keep running because the engine is running. The pto only turns when the tranny is turning. If the tranny shifter is placed in neutral and the pto lever is engaged, the pto still won’t turn with the engine running, as long as the clutch is engaged (i.e. clutch pedal pushed in). Letting the foot off the clutch pedal disengages the clutch and starts the tranny turning, which runs the pto and hydraulic pump for the 3 point. Re-engaging the clutch immediately stops the pto and the hydraulic pump.
So actually there is no more risk of burying an auger with an 8N than any modern tractor.
Where the over-run clutch comes in (i.e. is needed) is when the 8N is attached to a mower. The problem arises when the mower is turning at top speed and the operator is bouncing along happily watching his mower annihilate all the weeds. Then when he/she gets to the end of the row, where there is a fence or ditch in front of them, the person naturally thinks all they have to do is depress the clutch pedal and apply some brakes, just like they would if they were plowing.
But alas, the early generation tractors didn’t work that way. Since the tranny can either be driven by the engine (with the clutch disengaged) or by the wheels (if the tractor is in gear) or in this case by the pto, the operator engages the clutch but inertia of the mower keeps turning the pto which turns the tranny.
Since the tractor is in gear, the wheels keep turning, driving the tractor into the ditch or into the fence. If the operator could jerk the gear shifter into neutral, the inertia of the mower would still turn the pto, but wouldn’t drive the wheels. But all the inertia of the mower and pressure against the gears, won’t let the operator shift the tractor into neutral, so into the fence (or ditch) the tractor goes.
The old timers knew this and simply throttled down at the end of the rows to avoid this problem. Of course, as you mention, and over-run pto clutch is the best answer. They are relatively cheap and easy to install.
Olpea covers this old old old 8n series very well! I didn’t describe it as good as that, but it was one of my first tractors of 10 in the past 57 years. Had most every color, domestic and foreign. First from age 13 was the Ford/Ferguson, same as the 8N but with split foot brakes, a horrible design that would hurt you in an instant. It would stand up on the rears and walk the dog.
Beforeldie, if you don’t have tractor time under your belt I would suggest you shop for a “modern” machine, and never one without live pto/clutch. I have had/worked/cussed and sold every piece of tillage equipment in this post and a bunch more. The 8N is a sweet machine, can be started with a hand crank and on. BUT, it’s older than me!
There are some walk behinds, easy to maintain, transport, etc., and then there are the compacts, I have an orange one of those specifically for the garden. (zero percent interest/6years/zero down)
The Italian walk-behind machines are designed for challenging terrane, tight spots, intensive small area cultivation. Surely there are some domestic makes.
If you don’t have a good utility trailer/practical towing vehicle and access to the attachments, you might find a better machine for your needs than a full sized tractor? Or hire it done.
Maybe I’ll tell the story one day about how bad a 5000+ lb tractor can wallow an old-timer…and live to tell of it. (too stupid to die that day)?
Appleseed,
You probably know this story about 8Ns, but maybe I could add some details you may not be aware of.
I have some family from Coffeyville KS. There is a John Deere plant in the town.
During the 40s and 50s, it was started by a couple brothers by the name of Funk, called Funk manufacturing.
When the 8Ns were built, the Funk brothers teamed up with another guy. Together they got the idea to replace the low powered 4 cylinder engines with a Ford industrial 90+ hp flat head six cylinder, and sell them to farmers. They also made some kits to adapt even a more powerful industrial Ford V8 to the 8N.
Funk agreed to make an adapter kit to match the high hp engines with the tractor. They made quite a few of the kits.
Ford started started getting a lot of transmissions which were broken and wondered what was going on. Eventually they found out the Funk brothers were making these transmission adapters for powerful engines and threatened legal action if they didn’t stop.
Now those converted tractors are considered highly collectable.
The John Deere plant is still called Funk manufacturing, but owned by Deere. Ironically they make transmissions.
Olpea,
I am learning a whole bunch here! Great history, Thank You.
My father and mother met in Coffeyville, KS. Alta worked at the Shell building, Roy was a flyboy. Married after two weeks courtship. She said she had to do something to keep him from buzzing downtown in the P38 or loose her job.
And a farmer from Kansas introduced me to this site only a few weeks ago. Keeps getting better and better.
When someone/you mentioned flipping the tractor with a root, I started to think maybe I should get a nice tiller and rent or buy an auger because I no experience with tractors. Or hire someone.
edit:. I need a front loader anyway.
