2017 Grafting Thread

I have seen the advice somewhere to tie a stick firmly to a branch so that it sticks out about your graft, which will encourage birds to land on the stick instead of the graft.

Lois,
Sorry to hear about that much failure. It’s disheartening. Could you please post pictures? We’d like to help you figure out what has gone wrong.

With cleft, besides lining up cambium, the important factor is to tie the graft union tightly, either with rubber band, garden tape, Temflex or plain strip of plastic. It has to be very tight for the union to callous via firm contact.

I’ve grafted on existing trees and the branches I’ve grafted on are smaller than 1". I do not use any grafting seal. All I do is to make sure all exposed surface is covered by parafilm first before I tightening up the graft union with green garden tape.

1 Like

I have done this too, works very well, I use the orange tape though :slight_smile:

The birds?, alas, attacked the sticks and tore them down

One of the NCSU (I think) videos has them cover a grafted branch end with a loosely fitting brown paper lunch bag. Maybe that could help your avian problem.

I don’t even know for sure that it’s birds. Whatever it is, it’s attracted to black. Not just the grafting sealer but the Temflex tape is torn in places.

One of those cameras …

I know I used a few extra passes of parafilm over the graft specifically, and then used (white) medical tape over top and the birds didn’t seem attracted?

Maybe try different colors to see which ones the birds don’t attack? I think they even sell camouflage duct tape now if worst comes to worst. :wink:

You’re probably just frustrated right now but I think everyone here wants you to succeed and Im sure it’s very close to happening-probably just a minor tweak or two and you’ll be having more graft success than you know what to do with.

Anyway, good luck. :four_leaf_clover:

I have this mysterious “graftbug” as I call it which loves to eat the buds on my new grafts. I have also had finches peck at them. One year I caught a graftbug, it was hiding under the parafilm. I was so quick to squish the thing that I didn’t see what kind of bug it really was - probably a caterpillar of some kind. I had one early this year that munched on one of my apple grafts and I to coated the surrounding area with tanglefoot to keep it away.

There is a general problem of topworking big trunks that bugs will randomly wander up to the trunk expecting to find a whole tree to munch on and all they find is a couple young grafts … which they then munch on.

2 Likes

Well just got a big dump of rain here, and now the temps are rising, so I think if something is going to take this year, it’ll be soon or never. I am assiduously avoiding poking at the scions all wrapped in parafilm that I can’t see what if anything is going on.

Scott,
Apparently sugar or another desirable substance is in high concentrations at the graft union because grasshoppers girdled my grafts when I pulled the tape at the wrong time. All that fresh wood under the tape got stripped so I started waiting until the next year to pull my tape. I use plastic tape on the union covered with pruning seal. I’ve started wrapping every graft in parafilm not that it’s necessary in just want 100% graft takes one year since others claim they get that. Overall I lose very few but sometimes circumstances can make 100% success nearly impossible. I had a woodpecker drill about half dozen plus grafts last year perhaps looking for the same bug eluding you. Regardless the grafts were killed by the woodpecker and I chalk that up to stuff that happens.

1 Like

@ltilton, if you are interested can you walk us through step by step your grafting procedure. There must be something common because if you are doing apples/pears it does not make sense to have 0% takes.

Scions:
Where do you get your scion wood from (eg. private or commercial sources, what growing zone). What zone are you.
When is the wood cut.
Is it treated prior to shipment.
How long from cutting to shipping is it and how is it stored during that period.
How is it shipped to you (regular post, express, ect).
How was it packaged. (loose, ziplock, ziplock with wet paper, wrapped in parafilm, ect)
How long from shipping to arrival.
Once you get it how do you store them.

Grafting:
When do you start grafting? Eg. what date and what is going on at that time? Snow still on ground with everything dormant and many freezes still to come? Before last frost but buds swelling? Leaves at 1/4 inch green?
How do you do your grafts?
What are you using to cut first. Shears, knife.
Are you cleaning your knife between cuts (10% bleach, pine sol, 70% alchohol) and if so are you drying thouroughly?
What grafts are you doing? Cleft, whip, bark? Can you carefully unwrap some dead grafts and take close, in focus images of the union?
If you can’t take photos can you draw out what they looked like?
How well did the cambium match up? EG. on a cleft graft was your scion wood fully within the cleft (eg outer bark even) or was the scion slightly protruding outside the cleft so the bark does not fully match but the cambium is touching.
Then how do you protect? What do you wrap with? Wax first? Parafilm first? Plastic wrap first? Then do you anchor with electrical tape, rubber bands, ect?
Do you do anything with the scion above the graft? Wrap in parafilm, paint with wax, ect.

Give us all this info and perhaps we can figure out what is going wrong. for 0% takes on apple/pear there is either something wrong with your scion wood, or there is a reproducible error or deadly step in your process because apple and pear WANT to work as long as the cambium is even close to each other.

3 Likes

The only graft I have had time to do this year is picking up steam. Goldrush grafted onto Kidd’s Orange Red on G.969 roots. Based on the reviews here it his highest on my priority list.

4 Likes

Excellent list of troubleshooting questions!

I seriously have been one of the people who really had apples take when the scion was barely making the acquaintance of the rootstock, so it seems like something we should be able to help you figure something out. I don’t know what would be seeking out and chewing up grafts though.

Canuck, I’d love to post photos, but my computer seems to have lost the thingie that takes images off cameras and puts them into the computer.

The scion wood I grafted on April 9 mostly came from Ohio by mail - lost in the mail for a couple of weeks, which surely did it no good. It was slightly moldy, and I dipped it into bleach, then into the fridge in a ziplock bag. The weather was unseasonably warm, trees blooming or near bloom.

For grafting, I use a knife and a new utility blade. Not so good at cleaning between cuts.

I used a variety of techniques, in hopes something would work: cleft and bark, mostly cleft with cross-cambium placement. Some scions were coated in wax, some with black grafting sealer, some with parafilm with cut at top sealed. Cut surfaces of stock sealed with black stuff. Graft union first wrapped in parafilm, then tight with Temflex tape.

One scion seemed to have a bud breaking thru the parafilm, which was immediately attacked and ripped off by whatever is attacking this tree.

Some broken-off scions show green inside, but after 6 weeks, no buds opening.

I’m not inspecting scions still wrapped in parafilm that I can’t see thru.

I did some other grafts from a different source a few weeks later, so far no buds opening.

Tree is trying to push its own buds

1 Like

I’m not a mean person but I’m not above wiring some posts very tightly with a 10 mile electric fencer.

2 Likes

So right away I would say with 99% confidence that your scion wood is the problem. Heated up, dried out buds/cambium will not grow no matter how nice of a graft you do.

What % bleach did you use, how long did you soak and did you rinse with water after? In the zip locks did you have dry/wet paper towels or anything?

How long did you store in the fridge prior to grafting?

After that, make up a list of what you want to try and post it on the scion exchange
next fall. People here seem happy to share. Just pay them to ship by express post.

I got some wood that was lost for 3 weeks this winter so I will be able to see the difference in success. My gut says ideally you want good dormant wood to be no more than 5-7 days at room temp before getting it back in the fridge. I have seen no evidence on this but perhaps others know of some studies on the subject.

3 Likes

I certainly agree that the condition of the scion wood is greatly suspect

The bleach was diluted, I forget exactly but it was what some people here recommended

If none of the later graft attempts take [they spent too long in the mail as well and some were already pushing buds] I’m going to see if I can get some budwood this summer and try that. I actually have one or two successful attempts at budding.

This is my double mulberry graft. The low graft is Girardi and the graft on top of it is Kokuso. Girardi was grafted long time ago in the middle of March and Kokuso in the middle of April on top of Girardi. Both finally began to grow. Gerardi is trying to set fruits. :grinning:

Pawpaw grafts began to grow too. VERY slowly.


My late grafted Korean giant began to grow. And also there is Korean giant cross on the background. Thanks to @tonyOmahaz5 for the scionwood of mulberry, pawpaws and pears.

I think it will catch up with my early grafted pears. This is Ubeleen graft.

My apricots grafted in the middle of the April started to grow. I think maybe less then half of them took.

And this is the pictures of apricots which were grafted on March 3-4. Look for the tape in the leaves.

Also a couple of shots of Euro and Asian plum grafts.



I would like to thank you everyone who sent me the scionwood.

15 Likes

Boom it’s going on at Antmary’s!

Dax

4 Likes

@ltilton. Here is what I do in answer to the questions I sent. Perhaps it can help you next time.

Scions:

Where do you get your scion wood from (eg. private or commercial sources, what growing zone). What zone are you.

Majority from private trades and purchases. Majority scions cut from zones as cold or colder than mine (zone 4).

When is the wood cut.

All cut while dormant, in zone 2-3 cut during slight warm spells in January. Zone 4 cut in January, February or early march, generally when daytime temperatures come above zero.

Is it treated prior to shipment.

Ideally 10 seconds in a 10% bleach solution then rinsed in water. If this is not done by the shipper I do so when it arrives and I handle the wood with latex gloves to avoid seeding with bacteria/fungus.

How long from cutting to shipping is it and how is it stored during that period.

Ideally cut and shipped within a few days. While waiting stored in the fridge wrapped in paper towels that have some water sprayed on them (not fully damp), then kept in freezer zip locks in fridge.

How is it shipped to you (regular post, express, ect).

I always pay for shipping express leaving a Monday. I would rather it stay in their fridge a few more days that risk a weekend at room temperature in the post office.

How was it packaged. (loose, ziplock, ziplock with wet paper, wrapped in parafilm, ect)

As described above. Have received some with very wet paper towels, usually some fungus growth is visible with the really wet paper. I have also received scions that we’re wrapped in parafilm only then direct in a zip lock, seems to be ok but I wonder about long term storage vs being exposed to some humidity.

How long from shipping to arrival.

Ideally by Friday of same week. Frequently arrives after 2-3 days.

Once you get it how do you store them.

If pre-bleached I check dampness of paper towels and replace if too wet or moisten if too dry then suck air out of ziplock and keep in top shelf of fridge below air entry.

Grafting:
When do you start grafting? Eg. what date and what is going on at that time? Snow still on ground with everything dormant and many freezes still to come? Before last frost but buds swelling? Leaves at 1/4 inch green?

Apples/pears generally at time of melt when most snow gone and buds are swelling. Could wait later but I have so many to do I start earlier. Generally 3rd-4th week April.

Plums, apricots, once buds are starting to open with leaves at 1/4 inch. 1st-2nd week May.

How do you do your grafts?

Inside I wrap all scions in parafilm and label with tape. It is warmer and more comfortable than doing outside. I then cut the rootstock/branch, cut the scion right through the parafilm. Do the graft (cleft, whip/tongue), wrap the union in parafilm then tightly wrap the union in electrical tape starting from rootstock/branch then up the scion just above the union. If large calibre bark graft or cleft I put toilet seal wax before the parafilm to seal the large cracks. Mid summer I slice the electrical tape to avoid girdling and remove it completely in the fall. Having the electrical tape ON TOP of the parafilm avoids any bark damage when removing.

What are you using to cut first. Shears, knife.

Standard pruning shears and then an exacto knife with interchangeable blades for the cuts. I generally change the blade After 15-30 grafts.

Are you cleaning your knife between cuts (10% bleach, pine sol, 70% alchohol) and if so are you drying thouroughly?

I have tried pine sol but strips the oils on my shears and promotes rust. Tried 10% bleach but the rust comes even faster. Now I use rubbing alcohol. I generally only clean my shears/blade between trees, not after each cut.

What grafts are you doing? Cleft, whip, bark?

60% cleft, whip/tongue, 30% omega tool, 10% bark grafting.

Hope this helps you for next year. I bet if you do nothing else different other than get viable scion wood, you will see a massive increase in takes.

4 Likes