I grew 3 varieties of black raspberry and was always disappointed by their taste. It was such a mild taste. Mine all tip rooted. They were fun looking likes a row of hoops.
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Hey Mrsg!
Yes they can be bland but not all are created equal.
With the right conditions and the right cultivar they can be good. The small wild ones are very good without being acidic. Hard to forage though as you need so many. I still do most years. I still like reds better. I use blacks for fresh eating and any extras are used to sweeten tart fruit. Like they tone down honey berries quite well in a jam or syrup and I can avoid using a lot of sugar.
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Our spring moves quickly into summer. I love the reds!
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wow they look huge and delicious!
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I’ve been growing Jewel for more than 15 years. They’ve never been diseased, and are vigorous as all get out. I’m in zone 7A (St. Louis). They always say not to grow black raspberries near blackberries, but I’ve been growing them alongside Prime Jan and Prime Jim for the whole time I’ve had them. That brings to mind something else. It seems like all of the new Arkansas primocane varieties have Prime Jim in their ancestry, but none mention Prime Jan. I wonder why that is. Prime Jan goes off patent in a few weeks, and Prime Jim does in June. U Ark calls both of them “obsolete,” but they still use Prime Jim as a parent, or grand-parent or both.
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I grow ohio treasurse, but just because it is primocane fruiting and I’m too lazy to prune a floricane one.
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Nothing is absolute. Keep that in mind. I found what works for me. You’ll find what works for you.
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How was the flavor? I have a few plants that produced last year. The fruit was huge, but the flavor was insipid.
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I’ve seen all of the stuff you posted. My curiosity was why Prime Jim is used for breeding, but not Prime Jan. Having grown both since they were first sold, I like the Jans better. Neither taste great, but the birds get the floricane crop, and don’t really touch the primocane berries. Jan suckers like crazy. Every year I dig up those things from out in the yard. You can tell the difference because the Jims are very erect, and the Jans notably less so. As far as obsolete goes, some older models are still going strong. A guy in our community garden just planted Natchez in his plot. In 2024, if I were going thornless, it would be something like Black Gem or Ponca, but he probably just went to Home Depot or something. He probably should have asked me, as I’m known in the garden as a blackberry/raspberry nerd.
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Probably the reason for so many cultivars coming from Jim is tens of thousands of plants are grown. More than one good one is often found. They probably don’t want to flood the market with ten new cultivars at once. As time goes on new plots will be planted and another ten cultivars will be chosen. Depending on what they want I’m sure new stock is grown as much as they have room for. it’s not unusual to take 13 years or more from first planted to released to public. I would say it’s about the norm.
Niwot took about 17 years before it was released. Some get release in less then ten years, but I bet it’s a rare thing.
If you are wondering if newer cultivars are being used to develop new cultivars, I’m sure they are. We will find out either way in 10-15 years from now after full evaluations are done.
The longest studied plant I can think of is the Raz blueberry which was developed in 1934 by Dr. Frederick V. Coville it was released in 2011. By that time Dr. Frederick V. Coville was dead for 62 years. The 2011 released was just to propagate, official release to the public was much later. M.K. Ehlenfeldt help release it. I really like most of the blueberry releases by M.K. Ehlenfeldt. He retired about 5 years ago, but his last pick was just released fairly recently Nocturne. They may have others? I don’t know? The M.K. Ehlenfeldt releases I grow are Nocturne, Legacy, Cara’s Choice ( M.K. Ehlenfeldt favorite), Razz, and Pink Lemonade.
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its ok. I’m not a big fan of raspberries in general. black raspberries are resistant to juglone and I have a bunch of black walnuts on my property (that secrete juglone) so I’m really just growing them for their juglone resistance and because my kids eat tons of fruit, black raspberries included. raspberries in the store are EXPENSIVE lol.
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Here is his page…he was a busy guy. I think the latest of his releases is Talisman.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/people-locations/publications/?person-id=1556
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Many times I’ve found that new threads touch on existing topics which have thoroughly been addressed. I also like to re-share those applicable topics for reference.
I found some “thornless” (fuzzy soft hair-like thorns) black raspberries at a job site last month which were only around waist height. I’m optimistic that they will like their new home and have good quality fruit. If so I already have a name picked out.
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My seedling black raspberries are on the northwest corner of the house, they can produce with minimal sunlight which is a great quality to consider too. Thanks for sharing about the juglone resistance!
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I forgot about that one. I looked at it but it was designed around mechanical harvest. It has a good yield but flavor is only good not excellent. I’m interested in finding a productive blackberry and will take a lower quality berry as long as it has great yield. Large too. But on blueberries I’m mostly looking only for fresh eating so looking for exceptional, rich, complex flavors. Like Cara’s Choice or Ka-Bluey. Which I have. Always looking for exceptional blueberries. This year I added mini blues. One I missed as it’s geared towards the commercial market mostly but plenty places sell it so appears to be popular for the home market too. Small berries meant for cooking. Great for commercial processing in cup cakes etc. machine harvest is excellent. A tough little bush.
I plan to container grow. The smallest commercial blueberry available. The exceptional flavor is where I’m at with this one. I do like to cook and frankly the other blueberry plants I have are ok processed but not as good as when fresh. Except maybe Northland. That one is pretty good baked.
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Not to derail the topic, but my current favorite blueberries are from Allen’s blueberries, just the wild Maine ones we bring back frozen. I believe Burnt Ridge and Hartmanns carry one, Brunswick might be the name? I need to give the other two you mentioned a go again at some point.
If I could find big blueberries as full of flavor as the wild Maine ones, I’d be a happy camper. My backyard is becoming a blueberry repository, and the lower growing ones have a home in planters along the deck beside potted figs (most of the figs are thanks to you!).
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I want to grow those low bush blueberries too. I pretty much have everything else I can grow. There are a number of southern high bush I
would like to grow but they don’t work here. They wake up too early. I tried a few times and all died. I tried to delay dormancy but nothing worked. I guess bringing them inside would have worked but that’s too much work. I have cacti I bring in. That’s as much as I’m willing to do. I’m overwintering a couple pepper plants too. They are doing good. Almost time to put them back out. Blueberries require strong light. Which I could not give. I would be fighting weak growth. Not worth it. I will eventually add the low bush Maine types though.
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You could check out Chippewa blueberry. I’m not sure if it’s as good, but they are pretty tasty. WI has a ton of wild bb too. I see the plants everywhere but can never find the berries.
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I always walk around jobsites and abandoned swaths of land… i keep a shovel, pruners and small feed sacks always 
Last week i found a blackberry that is thornier than Clark’s Heirloom. Some kind of mutation happened…no clue what the berries will look like.
I also found a black raspberry with green canes the color of a green gage plum as floricanes… im guessing it will have yellow berries.
I found several groves of some kind of blackberry mutation about 30 miles from where i live… the canes are trailing and thick and foliage stays nearly evergreen.
Last year i found a black raspberry with canes as thick as the handle of a golf club…they were growing in pure rock and surrounded by multifloras… im guessing it adapted to outcompete somehow.
My hobby and passion is the hunt… i spend alot of time looking at nature and its diversity…especially where humans have left things alone for a good while.
Black Delicious was found not far from me in Columbus OH… no clue what makes it special as those details arent talked about…but im going to give them a shot.
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i agree on Chippewa. its on par flavor wise with the Brunswick low bushes i have growing under my other highbush types. its the best tasting blue i grow overall but i dont have Caras choice. Brunswick is as good or better than the wild ones around here and double the size.
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