12,000 lb Screened Top Soil, A Bunch of Metal, Bolts, Nuts and a Few Curse Words

General Fruit Growing
#21

Definitely some valid points – I had to put a lot of thought into this layout/material selection before doing it. Here’s my rationale:

The long side of the bed on the low side is South (the back of my house faces South). Yes it is tight with the sun, but I watched it last season and then again this season – it stays full sun until we get to late summer/early fall when the sun starts to go lower on the horizon (after these bear fruit in future years). The elevation of the bed actually helps with this by raising the canopy.

The south face of the bed is 18" off the property line, so with 40" bed width, my centers are about 38" off the line. All of the plantings are reported to be between 6’ to 8’ mature, so I am pushing the line but should be ok – or at worst, pruneable. It helps that it’s a slight ravine/waterway on the property line that isn’t really plantable, so the neighbor can’t do anything super near to the line.

It’s a bit of a roll of the dice on neighbors planting shade trees, but my current backyard neighbor just wants to look at my plantings and likes that I’ve created a screen between our houses. His yard has a significant slope up and he only has about 16’ deep of backyard so I don’t think he’ll do any additional trees/he can’t fit anything too big anyway… Hopefully mine will be enough.

The houses are new – actually why I ended up doing all my plantings in beds – I started on the front yard (North), installing 2019 and planting 2020 spring, and did this installation new 2020 summer and partial planted this fall. The existing soil conditions are really bad – mostly clay/no drainage. So started with beds with nice soil and drainage, plus don’t have to worry about buried utilities. I’m doing it in phases, probably will do some stuff in ground later on for elevation change, but starting with foundation plantings.

The stuff I choose is mostly for its hardiness, maintenance, no spray and disease/pest resistance and nutritional value. My end use is mostly making kombucha and kefir. I will probably dedicate a bed to blueberries at some point, just haven’t wanted to mess with special soil prep.

This particular bed should mostly fill solid (that’s the idea anyway) so I’m thinking a 40 foot x 6-8’ tall solid hedgerow of flowing bushes followed by berries will look pretty cool and offer good production. And it’s not so tall that I can’t layer in persimmon, jujube, etc. Behind it / have a dedicated veggie/garlic patch.

The yards are very small, so I push it a little… It’s a work in progress…

#22

I do try offering stuff
How do you do it?

I GO out side,
I got some pawpaw’s
Want to eat my pawpaw’s

Come on eat some they are free
I have many different types to try
Please take some for all the family .

Oh that is right
no come closer
I got some pawpaw’s
Want to world to experience my pawpaw’s

Nobody ever wants my pawpaw’s

That’s how I feel about sharing paw paws
I am very sad all the time ?

I eat pawpaw’s alone in a corner
peering out excited I have pawpaw’s for all!

#23

Okay related I am placing any link, looks okay though
but wrote a short poem about potatoes I knew the legend
I do have a riley thing
(something that is dangerous maybe guard my pawpaw with that)

King used reverse psychology to make potatoes seem "worth enough to steal" (thevintagenews.com)
Haha like the potato story

like I have potato’s Not excepted

kingly hid them falsely guarded them

peasants climbing the castle wall
In the solamnum mystical poisonous family
hiding something the secret to all
a food source trying to control
King sits back laughing
can’t give them what they want
trickery, but he is right dumb super prima donna
scared of a flower blooming upside down !

I got some pawpaw’s They are not available
Yes that is right some Wanted to eat my pawpaw’s

Come on my security and they will set you free
I have many different types to try for a price
Please take some for all the family so divine .

Oh that is right only $29. 95
no come closer such a successful guy
I have some pawpaw’s should try, a little closer my delight
Want to world to experience my pawpaw’s before I depart

Nobody ever wants my pawpaw’s worlds falling apart

That’s how I feel about sharing paw paws
I am very sad all the time
go chew on your crud, and I will eat pawpaw’s in a corner in a park?

#24

I think that is probably the best orientation you could hope for. It also means that the back wall of your house has South exposure. That make it perfect to grow what might normally be zone pushing. Maybe even figs or Asian persimmons, though a bit of protection would probably help.

I think the elderberries you got are both American varieties. The one I had was a European one, so maybe that was why it was bigger. But it grew quickly and large. I wasn’t able to keep it in a larger space than what you are allocating. According to Starks, Nova gets 6-10’ tall and 6-8’ wide, so maybe it won’t be too bad (unlike if it goes to a full 12’…). And maybe the neighbor will be OK with it coming into his yard a bit as they can be pretty decorative with the flowers. Hopefully you planted it on the end, so that it only crowds one neighboring plant.

I’d be more worried with one of the 4 neighbors on the left or right. One big tree on either side will block most morning or afternoon sun. But, you’ll have a bit of warning on that and will still have enough sun for a decent garden and probably some of the fruits.

Makes sense. It reminds me of Alan’s description of what can happen for new developments:

They sell all the good topsoil and when the construction is done compacting whatever they left they throw 3-4 inches of good soil adequate to grow a mediocre lawn, but not trees.

Make sure to prepare for netting them. I grow quite a few blueberries but get to eat almost none if I don’t net them from birds. A nice structure around them for the net would have made things easier…

Hopefully it will compress enough to get the soil level a bit lower than the side. It will be good to mulch it with woodchips in the future, without having them fall out into the lawn.

It does look small, but then I remind myself that until 10 years ago I only had a condo with no outside space at all and a small balcony on a previous rental. What you’ve got is 1000X better than that.

Good luck with it!

#25

That’s unfortunate about the paw-paws, but yes, you might be on to something in increasing value – all of my stuff is young so I don’t really have any fruit production to share; on my peppers, I basically hand them to the neighbors – my immediate neighbors all take part/enjoy… But peppers might be easier than “exotic” fruit. When I get to the point of surplus production, I plan on putting a card table out with a “free” sign – people are usually suckers for “free” :slight_smile:

#26

I don’t know how to the block quoting cleanly so I’ll try to break it up manually:

I think that is probably the best orientation you could hope for. It also means that the back wall of your house has South exposure. That make it perfect to grow what might normally be zone pushing. Maybe even figs or Asian persimmons, though a bit of protection would probably help.

Yes, it’s the best location I have – I actually started on the North side of the house to make my mistakes before heading to the South. I probably won’t zone push too much (at least not to start) to keep things simple/more likely to succeed. That said, I do large self-wicking containers so I might try fig in that and overwinter in garage…

I think the elderberries you got are both American varieties. The one I had was a European one, so maybe that was why it was bigger. But it grew quickly and large. I wasn’t able to keep it in a larger space than what you are allocating. According to Starks, Nova gets 6-10’ tall and 6-8’ wide, so maybe it won’t be too bad (unlike if it goes to a full 12’…). And maybe the neighbor will be OK with it coming into his yard a bit as they can be pretty decorative with the flowers. Hopefully you planted it on the end, so that it only crowds one neighboring plant.

I didn’t end up going with elderberries in this bed – although I have my eye on a few dwarf varieties for future (Fedco has a smaller strain and there were a few others I found (but can’t remember names offhand). I haven’t messed with them yet as I’m more interested in fresh processing (I think American are OK fresh, but European need heat before use). I’m keeping them in mind for when I get to actual ground plantings as they tolerate clay and low draining soil better. In this bed, I have 2 regent serviceberry, goumi (1 red gem, 1 sweet scarlett), 2 ben sarek currant and will put in a coral blaze and sunrise cornelian next spring.

Make sure to prepare for netting them. I grow quite a few blueberries but get to eat almost none if I don’t net them from birds. A nice structure around them for the net would have made things easier…

Yes, I will have to assess as I actually start getting production – this is a very weird neighborhood so far – I haven’t seen hardly any wildlife activity, but I’m on the innermost ring in the center of the development so I think the wildlife is sticking to the outer ring. I suppose once I grow it, they will show up :smiley:

Hopefully it will compress enough to get the soil level a bit lower than the side. It will be good to mulch it with woodchips in the future, without having them fall out into the lawn.

Already chipped, I’m a big fan of wood chip mulch – I have about a 4" layer in all my beds. I buy taller beds to accommodate. 12" (after compression) screened top soil and 4+" mulch.

It does look small, but then I remind myself that until 10 years ago I only had a condo with no outside space at all and a small balcony on a previous rental. What you’ve got is 1000X better than that.

It’s a start :smiley:

#27

Highlight the text you want to respond to and click the “Quote” button which pops up.

Yes, I’ve got some elderberries in moist and sometimes swampy land at the bottom of my yard (cuttings from the one I removed). They’ve done OK, though they haven’t been as productive. It could be from less sun. Of course, most fruit wouldn’t survive there at all. Elderberry is pretty tough- I remember reading that they can often be found growing in ditches by roadsides. They also make a very distinctive jam, which I like. The flavor is a bit strong, so you may want to mix it with other fruits/berries.

I have a Ben Sarek currant (black currants make the best jam- even better than elderberry or boysenberry which are also great). I’m not sure if it is generally true, but mine hasn’t grown very large. They readily root from cuttings, so if you want more of them, just cut off a few stems in the fall and stick them where you want the new bush. By spring, most will likely be new plants. (that approach also works well for gooseberries and OK for elderberries)

I wish I could get no wildlife activity. It is a lot of work trying to prevent them from eating most of what I grow.

1 Like
#28

Good stuff – that’s good to know on the currants, do you do that before or after they go dormant? And yes, from everything I’ve read/researched, Ben Sarek is the smallest available – 2-3’ max height. I also have golden currant, clove curant and red rovada – but everything is first leaf. Those are in my front yard – the goldens and cloves took off this first season! I’m interested in elderberry for the nutritional/antiviral properties, but need to drill down a little harder on whether the American strains are safe fresh – or if they have to be processed with heat like the european elderberries.

It’s almost unsettling at times. I haven’t seen a single squirrel or rabbit – not one! Only a handful of birds over the last year and a half. I do see plenty of frogs. But this will probably change – I’m one of the only ones in the whole development doing any plantings – and the only one I know of that’s growing food, so it could change when there’s actually something for them to eat I suppose…

#29

Nov/Dec, after they go dormant.

That’s about how big mine is, but I wasn’t sure if it was normal

My Rovadas are pretty productive, but the birds go for it. Not as bad as blueberries, but I’ll lose most of them.

Not sure, but I recall my mom saying she ate elderberries fresh as a kid. I don’t know that I’d risk it myself though.

1 Like