2-4D Drift, farmer doesn't care, ag officials protect him

Corn, as with most grasses, is already naturally resistant to 2,4-D and dicamba.

Tolerant sure but brace roots, “buggy whips” or whorled leaves can often be seen on corn from auxin based herbicides if timing is off.

Personably, I want rural folks and farmers to be productive and have long happy lives. Being slaves to Monsanto/Bayer, BASF, and Croplife are not the way to do that. Quoting a Mississippi farmer in “Dispatches from Pluto”, “Monsanto knows exactly how much to charge us to keep us from completely going bankrupt.” We know the prices are cheaper for their seeds and chemicals in areas that can’t pay as much, but everywhere the system destroys the health of people and the environment See article: . ‘Buy it or else’: Inside Monsanto and BASF’s moves to force dicamba on farmers ‘Buy it or else’: Inside Monsanto and BASF’s moves to force dicamba on farmers - Investigate Midwest

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Exactly, if anything I feel more sympathy for the farmers. they are completely caught between a rock and a hard place because of 100 years of (with hindsight) 99% horrible decisions by the industry and they were just taken along for the ride

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That may be true but long term studies show farmers have less cancer and all around less health problems. The study has been going on for over thirty years and included those who spray. There are three or four threads on this site that mention the study. My wife is another lifelong nurses study. As are my kids. My wife has been in the study 42 years.
It’s fairly well documented that these herbicides are not that dangerous. It’s going to be hard to refute these very well done studies.

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“Well done studies” paid for by herbicide companies? Oh, sure, very convincing. Don’t try to convince me they are independent, pesticide companies will see to it that the researchers know which side their bread is buttered on. Or what will happen to them if they make “wrong” discoveries.
Taking the mildest and safest of the lot, how much do you actually know about glyphosate? Doesn’t much do much harm to iron using bacteria, just the symbiotic intestinal species that ALL higher species naturally harbor. It isn’t likely to outright kill you, just cause chronic ill health. (Like the digestive problems most Americans are experiencing?) Or Atrazine, someone in Fish and Wildlife told me that they’d been trying for years to get out the word that Atrazine kills quail. We know it’s breakdown product interferes with thyroid function, that was the mechanism behind the tadpoles that developed too many legs.
Remember that the average American is EATING the pesticides that the farmers are spraying, so any health differences between the 2 groups may be lost in statistical noise. It might be that the extra exercise farmers are getting mitigates in their favor compared to all the sitting most Americans are doing. And studies are about averages. I learned a long time ago that I don’t have “average” reactions to chemicals.

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I just got done reading Gut Check and am working on Outlive. Both mention the dangers of pesticides. Gut Check elaborated on concerns related to glyphosate and it’s potential cancer connections.

Much of the food we as a society have been told is healthy apparently has the capacity to cause us significant harm over time, including fruit if not eaten a certain way… :see_no_evil::hear_no_evil::speak_no_evil:

I’m remaining critical but curious about the information and studies cited.

Sorry to hear that your neighbor is still spraying your plants.

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Sorry to hear this is an ongoing problem.

I met with family that farms the fields around our orchard today. They said they would stop using 2-4-D around us and use glyphosate instead. That would prevent problems if the wind is minimal. I imagine they may need to till the fields if roundup resistant weeds become an issue.

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Argh… I’m apparently next in line for the chemical barrage. I saw your earlier post but didn’t want to ‘like’ it but definitely feel for your situation Mike. I’m glad you were able to come up with a solution that might be better.

I’m seriously reconsidering some of my property design plans based on potential drift challenges at my new place too. If you get it all figured out, keep us posted.

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Such a frustrating situation, sorry you are still dealing with it… Keep taking good notes and reaching out to the right folks to let them know there is still a challenge to overcome.

I hope it never becomes an issue for you. Growing fruit is challenging enough as it is. Ideally, an orchard would have a shelter belt that might mitigate drift damage. That was not really option here due to the layout. I found out the hard way some things are more susceptible. I have not seen herbicide damage on pawpaw so, it might not be a big issue for you. some 2-4-d formulations are labeled for use in pome and stone fruit orchards but, I suspect it may have damaged my bush cherries, nectarine and plums. Apples and pears seem indifferent.

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Have you tired politely asking the farmer if he could please spray when the winds are calm so as not to drift on the property line?

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I’ve been trying to catch a non-windy day for over two months, just to spray some Japanese honeysuckle, multiflora rose, blackberry, and Autumn olive, but have not had a window yet.

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I came here to vent. 2-4-d damage is more extensive than I initially expected. Even the huge sycamores are losing a few leaves. I think drift has probably been damaging my orchard for years and I was too busy with another bussines to see what was going on. Low level herbicide damage can be difficult to distinguish from fungal disease or leafhopper damage. This time, it looks like some of the trees won’t recover. row crop farmers are open to compensation, but it’s difficult to put a dollar value on fruit trees that’s aren’t part of a production orchard.




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If the drift isn’t coming too high, making a sacrificial hedge of american plum can help a bit depending on the wind and timing. But them you have plums spreading everywhere. It’s the best I could come up with for something that is tough as nails and no care, and I’m ok with mowing off what spreads too far. Of course I have invasive elms trying to come up in the middle. The spray crew in the ag field here “tries” to avoid damage but those micro-droplets can carry a LONG way.

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2-4-d is volatile and off gases for a couple weeks after its applied. Even if it’s applied with zero initial drift, it will move off target 100% of the time. I’m sure 2-4-d is killing all kinds of sensitive native plants. That explains why I don’t see more persimmons growing wild around here. My problem area is low ground, so all that toxic vapor accumulates there at night. I thought persimmons would do well there escaping late frost and having minimal fungus issues.

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You don’t have to look very far or hard to determine who funds the study or what findings they want it to have. There is a plethora of information demonstrating quite the opposite. I personally don’t know a single farmer (my grandfather included) who lived a long healthy life. The amount of carcinogenic chemicals they are exposed to leads to a seemingly endless supply of ailments leading to early death. Most studies are gamed, and unfortunately not very credible. I would definitely not want my property adjacent to any land who’s ubiquitous use of herbicide and pesticides contaminated my property or water supply. I think in 10-20 years we will look back on the use of these things similarly to how we now look back on lead pipes or asbestos.

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I’m sorry about that. I can’t imagine how furious I would be if those were my trees. I would probably have to wait several days before deciding what to do because I wouldn’t be able to trust myself to make rational decisions.

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Well, did you talk to him first before reporting him? Over the years we have had people report us for _____ (usually animal welfare) only to have the official come out and say that we aren’t doing anything wrong, so we aren’t cited. I am wondering why the “neighbor” who has an issue with us doesn’t come to us first. Doesn’t seem very neighborly in my opinion.

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