Yes, I definitely get some good heat here. I have one spot where the persimmon get maybe two-thirds of a day of full sun in the hottest temps of the afternoon. They didn’t trail the full sun plantings by very much at all. I have some others that get their sun more in the morning. They didn’t grow nearly as fast… although I planted maybe 7 seeds per spot (to select the strongest growers ironically enough), so that might have been partially a competition issue. I also didn’t use the black fabric on those morning sun persimmon so maybe that’s partly a factor too.
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@AvidSlacker … i had some grafts this year that early on pushed lots of shoots. My rich tooie graft had 5 shoots growing from one scion… with multiple shoots coming out of one bud.
I removed the weaker shoots and selected the best one for central leader… left a couple others but tipped them so about half as long as central leader.
Provided support for central leader.
That works well.
Good luck.
TNHunter
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Thanks for the quick answer and a link! Good to hear you put those scions to good use. Your apple scions are also doing great on my tree. Had some bloom this year (but no apples yet, hopefully next year).
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Thank you, @TNHunter. From the pictures, it looks like the “couple others” that your kept refer to the original scion sticks you bark-grafted. So I am going to pick the central leader from the dominant graft, remove (most of) the rest of the shoots from it and, per @blueKYstream advice, retain the remaining two original grafts until the stump heals. Sounds like a plan – thanks guys!
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At this late stage, I would mostly leave it as is because the leaves you have are feeding the tree… and it’s late in the year. You can thin later. Weaving to hold things together is an interesting thought. That might make the bark grafts hold on a bit stronger.
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So the third time is apparently not the charm for this triple trunk rootstock I’ve been trying to graft to all season. After failing twice with Kaki and hybrids and deciding it must be KSDS, I tried three different Americans. Just like all the others, they appear to be pushing and then they just fail. I think this is just not going to take other grafts for some reason. This fall I’ll dig it out and put one of my persimmons still in containers in its place. Painful to lose a season after having lost the previous year when the Rosseyanka top died back from a nice 8 foot tree. Thankfully most of my other grafts are doing well.
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Oh no! I’ve had that happen before where I just kept grafting and regrafting until the whole rootstock dries up and died. Some would rather die than host a graft. That’s a sad loss since the roots are well established and would’ve probably grown nicely if it cooperated.
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Thanks, @snowflake, for the advice. Thinning later sounds like a safe alternative. So I am adjusting my plans accordingly – thanks again.
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What has worked for me with root suckers: Using a sharp spade, sever the main root by pushing the spade into the ground in a circle around the sucker roughly 6" from the central leader. Then give the now separated sucker a month or so to sprout its own roots. You’ll know that it is viable if the leaves stay green. Then after a month or two pot or transplant the sucker. Take the soil with the roots.
This works best if the root that you need to sever is small, as with the top and bottom suckers in the photo. That probably means favoring suckers that form far from the main trunk. I’ve had roughly 75% success with this method.
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FWIW, after maybe 50-60 grafts of Americans and JT02 to (a) an established Prok tree and (2) various DV seedlings:
- My bud grafts onto Prok never succeeded.
– My W&T grafts succeeded roughly half the time. Success/failure seems a function of rootstock quality and my own knife skills or lack. W&T is relatively demanding, especially in the field. Probably ~2/3 success with bench grafts on small potted seedling trees.
– My bark grafts onto Prok were nearly 80+% successful IF (!!!) the rootstock branch was in a dominant position. But such grafts were 0-20% successful if the rootstock branch was in a subordinate position. So for example, if a branch forked and I bark-grafted both forks, I would generally have near total success on the upper / larger fork but total failure on the lower / smaller fork.
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My bench grafts were nearly 100% successful on DV, IF I used a callus pipe with dormant rootstock. Out on the field, success was reduced to maybe 2/3. But 100% of my bark grafts on Kaki succeeded.
Even tiny rootstocks were successfully grafted using whip tongue in the callus pipe.
I was even successful with a completely hollow piece of scionwood. The outside was green but the pith was dead/gone. It has grown the most of all my grafts.
Grafts on lotus were far less successful. Some kakis simply did not take despite repeated attempts. DV on lotus did work. Based on this year, I won’t bother attempting kakis on lotus anymore.
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@hobilus I tried a couple of your side grafts with this year’s JT-02 growth. They didn’t want to grow this season, but they definitely seem to have taken. Hopefully, they survive the winter and grow!
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@jcguarneri — I was wondering about how much growth they have to produce this year — to survive the winter and grow again next year.
My Coroa De Rei is short on growth… it grew some got psyllid attack… I sprayed it a few times, it grew a bit more, then late July just sort of stopped growing.
I have been feeding it compost tea and micronutrient mix the past week. Hoping to make it better.
I did notice a bit of new growth a new shoot today.
My CDR…
It has grown the least of all my smaller rootstock grafts in my field.
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I think so long as it grows at all and stays alive until it goes dormant in the fall, you’re golden. I’ve had grafts only grow an inch or two and come through the winter just fine. The next year they grew at a more reasonable rate.
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Good to know… Thanks @jcguarneri
I have 5 gal of compost tea and micronutrient mix… going to keep dosing it until that is gone.
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I have 2 greenwood side grafts of Dar Sofiyevki that are still green and seem to have taken. They definitely dont want to push though. Its been nearly a month now. Fingers crossed theyll overwinter.
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Hi there @TNHunter, quick question about the persimmon shoots in your field. I’m in NE GA and in the same boat. I have saved about 50 this year and hoping to graft some of them next year. Do you mulch to knock down the sod / grass around the young persimmons? I have noticed that several that are growing in full pasture (fescue) have more evidence of fungal pressure on the leaves. I assume this is because of the humidity and micro-environment with less airflow near the edge of the forest. The ones growing in disturbed areas show no sign of disease leading me to think that perhaps the fescue is trapping some humidity. Some of my mature trees growing in close proximity to other trees have the same leaf spots. This is our first full summer on the property so I don’t know if this is typical or just this year. Thanks for any advice!
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@BigMoonFarmGA … last fall… before my bushhoging in October… i picked out several wild dv out in my field… you know good size good location… and i put down around each one a nice deep layer of partially composted wood chips. I also put in place a cage (cattle panel cage) 50 inch tall and secured that… mostly concerned about buck rubs there.
I did not fertilze or add compost… just a nice deep layer of composting wood chips.
Then this spring after they budded out and started producing small leaves I grafted them.
Had very good success… all but 1 took.
Most of them have put on 6 ft or more growth this year… Kassandra around 8 ft. and a JTO2 graft approaching 10 ft of growth so far… and still going.
These little wild dv in my fields have been getting bushhoged 2x a year for 20+ years. I expect they have much better root systems than a normal seedling… which is probably why i am getting such good growth.
I am a lucky dog… persimmon wise. Wish I had realized this 10 years ago.
Ps… this summer on those succesful grafts… i added to each one… a half wheelbarrow of compost and then covered that with more composted wood chips.
We are having hot and dry right now… but that should be helping them out. They are not looking stressed at all.
Below is a pic of one of my wild dv… out in my field. This sapling was bushhogged last October… and all that growth happened this year. It is right at 5 ft tall now and 3/4 inch diameter at the base.
I will add a cage to it in the next month or so.
I have 4 set apart like that for grafting next spring.
I dont think you could get better rootstock.
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I took a walk down our road today to check on my Zima Khurma graft. Not much change on it.
It is bark graft to a small 2" wild dv in the edge of my woods. 2 scions 4 buds… 4 shoots. Not huge growth… but it did survive multiple rounds of psyllids early on.
ZK and Prok… have developed what looks like terminal buds and have stopped putting out new growth… just sort of keeping what they have for a while now.
JT02, Kassandra, WS8-10, Rich Tooie, Nakittas gift, Corora de rio and my IKKjiro are still putting out some new growth.
It has been hot this week… mid 90s…
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This was also my experience. I ordered four 2’-3’ grafted trees from Edible Landscaping, planting them outdoors in the fall 2020. I protected them from wind and snow by sliding the boxes they shipped in over a bamboo pole. All four started growing well in spring 2021. Then I decided that I needed to move KBS and Smith’s Best a few feet further away from David’s Kandy Korn and Kassandra, so I dug them up in early spring 2022 and moved them when they started waking up. This move set back their growth tremendously! Whereas DKK and Kassandra grew to 6’ this past season, KBS and SB struggled to put on 6-8" of new growth. I trust they will make it through this winter, but in the future I will think twice about moving a small persimmon.
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